• Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 7

Topic: Major Tune up: won't start

Hello Volks,

I finally completed a major tune up and I cannot get the car started.

I replaced plugs (Bosch), plug wires, points (they are gapped correctly) condenser, fuel filter, fuel pump and fuel pump push rod.  I also rebuilt the carb and changed the oil.  The new fuel pump came with a longer push rod, I installed that, but changed to the shorter original push rod when it would not start.  I also tried installing a new bakelite pushrod guide but I broke it, so I just put the two halves in.  The bottom half is "stuck" and won't come out.

I have cranked on it for about 15 min, put fuel down the carb and into the fuel filter.  There is no fuel in the fuel filter now and while cranking, it backfired twice.

Any thoughts as to what I am doing wrong?

74 standard beetle
44,000 on the new motor
1600 DP
was and will be my daily driver (once I get it running)

Thanks for your help.

Chuck

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Chuck,

Sounds like you did quite a bit of work on your Beetle.  A lot of what you mentioned is pretty straight forward:

- plugs
- condenser
- plug wires
- points
- fuel fliter
- oil change

...but that carburetor rebuild can be a very complex matter.  You have to make sure:

- the rebuild went 100% ok without any issues
- the rebuilt carb. is adjusted properly (mixture screw, bypass screw, float adjustment, choke, etc.)
- the solenoid on the carb. is working (if it has the solenoid)
- vacuum lines to & from the carb. & distributer

You didn't tell us what carb. you have so that may help.

Also the fuel pump replacement can be more complex that you might think.  Like you mentioned...you have to use the correct length pushrod...and using a broken fuel pump base/flange may not be a 100% great idea (they cost less than $5.00 bucks). wink

Sounds to me the problem may be with:

- the fuel pump (correct push rod length or the cracked base)   Good idea would be to verify the flow of the pump.
- or the carb. rebuild/carb. correctly adjusted (lots of things could go wrong here)

Also.  With this much work being done...you didn't mention checking or adjusting the engine timing.  With all the ignition work you did...I'm thinking the engine timing also need to be checked...and adjusted if necessary.

Hope this helps, smile

- Nick

p.s.  Also check for intake manifold leaks at the carb. base.

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Check to be sure the plug wires are going to the right cylinders. Easy to mix up and will cause your symptoms including the occasional backfire.

When the rotor is pointing at the small notch in the rim of the distributor, it is pointing at #1, then clockwise 4, 3, 2.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915
  • Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 7

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Nick, Jim,

Thanks for the replies.  I have a 34 PICT carb.  I did not adjust the valves yet.  It was running fine before I did the tuneup.  I do have a new push rod flange but I broke the old flange when I tried to remove it and the bottom half is stuck in the engine.  I will remove it on the next rebuild.

Good idea about checking plug wires, "I thought" I got them in the correct order, but it has been two months since I started the tune up (little problem keeping my heart going, it stopped just fine, getting it going was another matter,  one pace maker and $150,000 later I am fine).

I adjusted the timing by hand by moving the pulley and watching the points open/close and the rotor moving, but I will verify.

How can I tell if the fuel pump is pumping, do I disconnect the line to the carb and see if any fuel is coming out, there is just no fuel in the filter....

The fuel push rod came with the pump, it is 110mm, the original push rod, with a NAPA generic pump is 90mm which should I use?

Thanks for your help.

Chuck

74 Standard Beetle
1600 DP

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Chuckg wrote:

How can I tell if the fuel pump is pumping, do I disconnect the line to the carb and see if any fuel is coming out, there is just no fuel in the filter....

Do you have a 2nd person to help you...or do you have a remote start switch? 

http://images.mechanicstoolswarehouse.com/images/Product_Images/KDT/KDT-124.jpghttp://images.mechanicstoolswarehouse.com/images/Product_Images/LIS/LIS-20750.jpg

If you don't have a remote start switch this is really a 2 person job.  Normally what you do is:

- disconnect the coil wire from the distributer to prevent any accidental starts
- disconnect the fuel line from the carburetor
- place the fuel line from the fuel pump to carb. (still attached to the fuel pump) in a gasoline resistant container to catch the fuel
- crank the engine & check to see that fuel is flowing out of the fuel pump (this is why you need two people, or a remote start switch)

Obviously if you aren't getting any fuel out of the fuel pump...then that could be a BIG reason why the engine won't start! wink  If the new fuel pump is not pumping fuel...and if the old pump is working...you could reinstall that till you get a replacement new pump.

HTH,

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • TomB
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Austin, TX
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,095

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

You mentioned the new fuel pump came with a longer push rod. The right length for the push rod is determined by the pump model only, so if the new pump was supplied with the longer rod, that should be what you need.

  • Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 7

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Thanks guys,

I will ask my wife to turn the ignition while I check the fuel pump.  I did check the plug wires and they are installed correctly.  I will recheck the points and verify all electrical connections.  I think I may remove the fuel pump and turn the engine by hand and see if the push rod is moving....

I update everyone this afternoon....

Thanks again.

Chuck
74 Standard Beetle
1600 DP
Generator equipped.

  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

The fuel filter normally is not full. Usually less than half.

You do need to verify the timing with a light.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915
  • Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 7

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Jim, Nick,

Thanks for the replies.  I did recheck the plug wires with the notch in the distributor and found the the wires were 90* off.  Also I had the fuel line "in" in the fuel "out" port.  Darn, and I though I checked all that.  Thanks for your help and narrowing it down for me.  I did put in the new longer push rod.

Now all that's left is gapping the valves, new belt and static timing (to get it close) so I can teach my wife to time with a timing light.

Thanks again.

Chuck

74 Standard Beetle
1600 DP
Generator equipped

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Chuckg wrote:

Also I had the fuel line "in" in the fuel "out" port.  Darn, and I though I checked all that.

Woah...that would certainly explain the no fuel issue! wink  Hopefully the next time you post the engine will be running!!! smile

Thanks for the update,

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • Registered: 2011-04-02
  • Posts: 7

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Hello Volks,

Well after I correct the plug wire mixup and the fuel hose reversal, it started just fine and I ran it up and down the road.... yea,

Thanks for everyone's help....Now onto, adjusting valves, installing new belt and adjusting the timing.

Chuck
74 Standard Beetle
generator equipped
My daily driver

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Chuckg wrote:

Hello Volks,

Well after I correct the plug wire mixup and the fuel hose reversal, it started just fine and I ran it up and down the road.... yea.

Sounds AWESOME Chuck!!! smile  I was holding my breath waiting for your update...great to hear everything is working!  It's great that it wasn't something "mysterious"...that we would be scratching our heads over for weeks.

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • Registered: 2011-07-23
  • Posts: 2

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

I too would have to agree with the mod said. The carburetor rebuilding can take a huge toll on you, son. The whole process is pretty fragile and if you go wrong anywhere, then it won’t work again. The hardest part is to readjust the components like screws after rebuilding.

Hello
  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Nice try. Goodbye Caleb from India.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915
  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Major Tune up: won't start

Come on if it weren't for the spammers their would be even less traffic around here wink

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.