• From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Topic: Oil Leak Question

Hello all,

I went to change the oil in my Bug a couple of weeks ago and found fresh (as in not caked on) oil all over the bottom of the case after taking it for a drive to run errands and warm the oil for the oil change (1961 Bug with a 1971 dual port engine, doghouse oil cooler, stock 6V swingaxle tranny). I hadn’t driven it in a month or so and it didn’t leak on the ground during that time, so I suspected the oil cooler seals were bad and pulled the engine to remove the fan shroud and verify. In the process of doing that, I found two unusual things: I have engine oil spray towards the front of the car (on the bottom of the transmission), and found a very tiny bit in the transmission bellhousing, but do not see any leaks around the clutch whatsoever. I did find oil around the top two seals of the oil cooler, so I think I found the main culprit. I plan on pulling the clutch and flywheel to check all of that out this weekend, but before I do, I was just curious if anyone else had ever seen similar oil spraying/oil in bellhousing with a dry outer clutch?

Thanks,
-David

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Oil Leak Question

If you say that your clutch is dry...then it's probably not the rear main seal or the transmission input shaft seal (two seals where you can get some SERIOUS fluid leakage).

One way to definitely determine if its manual tranny fluid or not...is manual tranny fluid is VERY stinky (compared to motor oil).  Manual transmission fluid is VERY thick...so it may be possible for this to leak...and not splash around as much as hot motor oil...thus leaving your clutch area less messy.

Of course another easy & good way to determine that it's a motor oil leak is checking the oil dip stick for unusual oil loss.

Sounds like you have found the leak (oil cooler seals)...the only other area I would have suggested was the push rod tube seals.

Hope this helps,

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: Washington, Indiana
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,425

Re: Oil Leak Question

Dont rule out leaking axle boots...

                                                                         Yancey

Yancey's Website

  • From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Re: Oil Leak Question

Thanks Nick and Yancey,

I gave the oil found in the bellhousing the "sniff test", and by that and engine oil level determined that it is indeed engine oil. I replaced the axle boots 8 months ago or so, and they were dry on both ends and on the screw together seams (which I have at approx. 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock and not upright). I'll probably jump the gun and remove the clutch this evening or tomorrow (I have the patience of a kid at Christmas when it comes to waiting to jump into a project, just ask my wife :-) ) and get a clearer picture. I also had no clutch slippage, so I'm hoping for the best (and cheapest).

I appreciate the replies!

Regards,

-David

Last edited by stereotype one (2010-09-22 15:16:06)

  • From: Washington, Indiana
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,425

Re: Oil Leak Question

I found a bad doghouse oil cooler just the other day, you might want to check it to make sure it has no holes in it....a vacuum pump with a gauge on it can be adapted to check it out.....

                                                                              Yancey

Yancey's Website

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Oil Leak Question

stereotype one wrote:

I'll probably jump the gun and remove the clutch this evening or tomorrow (I have the patience of a kid at Christmas when it comes to waiting to jump into a project, just ask my wife :-) ) and get a clearer picture. I also had no clutch slippage, so I'm hoping for the best (and cheapest).

It's always good to be through when checking for leaks.  If you find that the leak is not from the oil cooler...it's always possible that you have an early/slow leak from your rear main seal...which would explain why the clutch didn't get splattered with engine oil YET). wink  I had a rear main seal go out on me years & years ago when I was on a trip from Georgia to Pennsylvania (clutch got soaked with oil)...what a pain in the butt!  You're mostly ok on the flat stretches of road...but when it comes to the hills...forget about it. wink

Depending on how often you remove your engine...or how difficult it is for you...even if your rear main & transmission input shaft seals are not leaking...I would recommend replacing them while your engine is out (if you don't know when the last time was they were replaced).  They get brittle over time...and thus it's a roll of the dice when they will start to leak.

I think that each seal costs less than $10 bucks...and while the engine is out...why not replace them.  Just a thought. smile

Hope this helps,

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Re: Oil Leak Question

Thanks Nick,

I'm planning on replacing both the rear main & transmission input shaft seals as suggested; my hope is that I don't have to spring for a new clutch. I'll also test the oil pump for leaks as per Yancey's advice (I hadn't even thought to use a vacuum pump, thanks!). I've become sidetracked with other "must-dos" this week/weekend, but I plan to tear into it again next week.

Thanks again for all the advice!

-David

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Oil Leak Question

You mean oil cooler as Sir Yancey suggested   wink    Also check where the oil cooler mounts on the case for cracks. Don't forget the oring on flywheel.

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Oil Leak Question

stereotype one wrote:

...my hope is that I don't have to spring for a new clutch.

If you had to...I think that a stock replacement clutch disk is under $20 bucks (plus a clutch alignment tool is $2.75 if you need one).  Most folks like to change everything as a unit (throw-out bearing, pressure plate, and clutch disk)...but sometimes you got to pinch pennies somehow! wink

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Re: Oil Leak Question

Cooler, pump..... One of these days I'll master this pesky English language!!! smile Wow, much cheaper clutch disk than I had priced it over at Wolfsburg West! Since I've gotten sidetracked a bit anyway, I've decided to hold out and replace the throw-out bearing, pressure plate, and clutch disc while I have everything apart. I'm going to split the parts costs between paychecks and that should work out financially. Thankfully the old girl isn't my daily driver, so I'm not in a pinch for transportation. Thanks again all, looking forward to my first batch of parts arriving and eventually getting back on the road in a leak free Bug!

Cheers,
-David

Last edited by stereotype one (2010-09-24 08:45:53)

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Oil Leak Question

stereotype one wrote:

Wow, much cheaper clutch disk than I had priced it over at Wolfsburg West!

Wolfsburg West sells good stuff.  As an "FYI"...most of the prices I'm getting come from:

www.cip1.com

Some of their stuff can be "cheaper quality"...but I've found most of their engine & tranny parts to be perfectly serviceable.  It's also quite possible that some of the Wolfsburg West stuff is sourced from the same suppliers as CIP1.

Good luck...have fun installing the parts, smile

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Re: Oil Leak Question

The oil leak fix is coming along nicely; all parts were ordered and arrived, the oil cooler seals were replaced (as well as the oil cooler passing a pressure test), LOADS of cleaning, and I’m all set to do the new rear main seal, clutch and pressure plate after work today. With any luck, I should have the Bug back on the road by next week if time permits this weekend. And now to today’s quandary… smile

Before I install the new throwout bearing, I had a question in regards to the transmission input shaft seal (I’m installing a new one while I’m there). I’ve read conflicting articles about whether to use a gasket sealant on the seal or just install it dry. Could anyone enlighten me as to what the preferred method is (61 Bug swingaxle)?

Regards,
-David

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Oil Leak Question

I install them without any sealer. Just oil the lip and the same with the main seal.
Did you get a "good" TO bearing? I have heard nothing good on the new ones. If your old one is good, re-use it. You can pry of the back cover and grease it

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,336

Re: Oil Leak Question

I do the same thing as burrhead mentioned...no sealer...just a little lubricant to help install the seal.

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Re: Oil Leak Question

burrhead wrote:

Did you get a "good" TO bearing? I have heard nothing good on the new ones.

Hmmmm.... EMPI, Made In China..... What could POSSIBLY go wrong? (sarcasm off) Thanks for the tip; my heart sank when I read that on the box. Glad to know I can grease and re-use the old one. Now to tackle the issue of pizza cookies... smile

-David