Topic: Carb leaking gasoline

I have a similar question to deerfisherman.  Recently I have been experiencing this problem:  Just after I start up my '64 Beetle, almost always, when I look back at the engine, I see that there is all this gas leaking from the top of the carburetor.  This is not a problem I have ever seen before.  When I first noticed this, I figured it must be some problem with the needle valve (which the float in the reservoir is supposed to push up -- when the reservoir is full -- to stop any more gas from entering). I removed the top of carb, and could blow into the inlet until I pushed up on the little pin, which would stop air from going through. This seemed to indicate this valve was OK. However, I happened to have an old carb rebuild kit, which luckily had a replacement for this valve.  So later I installed this in my carburetor just to make sure, thinking this would surely fix the problem.  But the same thing continues to happen.  The other thing is, it still happens, but so far it has always stopped eventually if I start driving around.  Now why would that be?? The carburetor is a SOLEX 28 PICT-1.

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

Exactly WHERE on the top of the carb is the gas coming from?

                                                                              Yancey

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

As Yancey said where is leak? Fuel inlet? bad hose? Are you using clamps? Is it leaking between top and base? Warped?
Don't drive it to far, sparks from ignition and fuel don't play well together wink

burrhead                                      A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion
                                                            No matter where you go, there you are !

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

I have a giant war wound on the back of my 74 bug from a fuel leak gone bad (previous owner!) so ditto on the "not driving too far" wink

Probably a good time for a carb cleaning.  If that float is sticking, having a new valve wont do anything.

Did you get a new/rebuilt fuel pump any time soon?  Perhaps an excess of fuel pressure is keeping the valve open?

-biggie

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

Yancey wrote:

Exactly WHERE on the top of the carb is the gas coming from?

                                                                              Yancey

It seems to be coming from where the hose goes into the carburetor, right on the very top.  If you look at the very top, there is a bump and then the inlet pipe comes out of there (actually, I just looked at it and it is a cylinder that protrudes up about ¾ inch above that part of the carburetor).  Even that protrusion ends up getting covered in gas (when it happens, that protrusion get covered in gas, the entire hose from the fuel filter to the inlet pipe gets soaked in gas, and even the distributor cap ends up wet with gas).  Now that probably makes you think that it is the hose.  Thing is, that hose is very new.  I put new tubing there a year or so ago, new 5mm I.D. cloth covered tubing I bought from Wolfsbürg West.  And I just pulled it off and looked at the end and it looks fine.  Do I need to glue the tube onto the inlet pipe or something?  Its almost as if the fuel pump has recently decided to pump fuel more forcefully than it ever has before, but only at the beginning.

thebignic wrote:

Did you get a new/rebuilt fuel pump any time soon?

nope

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

1964SunRoof wrote:

It seems to be coming from where the hose goes into the carburetor, right on the very top.  If you look at the very top, there is a bump and then the inlet pipe comes out of there (actually, I just looked at it and it is a cylinder that protrudes up about ¾ inch above that part of the carburetor).  Even that protrusion ends up getting covered in gas (when it happens, that protrusion get covered in gas, the entire hose from the fuel filter to the inlet pipe gets soaked in gas, and even the distributor cap ends up wet with gas).  Now that probably makes you think that it is the hose.  Thing is, that hose is very new.  I put new tubing there a year or so ago, new 5mm I.D. cloth covered tubing I bought from Wolfsbürg West.  And I just pulled it off and looked at the end and it looks fine.  Do I need to glue the tube onto the inlet pipe or something?  Its almost as if the fuel pump has recently decided to pump fuel more forcefully than it ever has before, but only at the beginning.

If that hose is new, and if it's the correct inside diameter...do you have a hose clamp on that hose?  Personally I wouldn't have any fuel lines on my Beetle without a hose clamp on it making sure the hose stays securely in place & tight!  Especially in the engine compartment where any leaking gas could cause a fire!!!

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

As Nick said, clamps?
Is the brass barb coming out of the carb top tight in the top?
Even tho you replaced the fuel hose " a year ago or so" Replace it again as the hose doesn't last as long as it used to with the fuel we have to run now  JMHO

burrhead                                      A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion
                                                            No matter where you go, there you are !

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

No I don't use a clamp (I have had my current VW for over 15 years and before that a '69 I owned for about 10 years and I never had to use a clamp there before).  And I have looked at photos in all my VW manuals, and no where do I see a picture of a carburetor with that hose having a clamp on it.  So I think using a clamp there is just a bandaid on an underlying problem I haven't figured out yet.  However, I do think it would probably solve the problem (at least I hope it will), and I want to take my VW in to have some work done on it, so I am wondering, where do I get a clamp for this purpose?  At the local hardware store I bought what they told me was the smallest size for one of those what-amounts-to-a-metal-screw-which-tightens-a-little-slotted-metal-band (label on it is "IDEAL") hose clamps.  But this thing does not close up enough for one of those only-about-9mm O.D. cloth-covered rubber hoses I am using. Is there something out there more appropriate for doing this?

"Is the brass barb coming out of the carb top tight in the top?"
  Yes, that is not the problem.

"Even tho you replaced the fuel hose " a year ago or so" Replace it again as the hose doesn't last as long as it used to with the fuel we have to run now."
  That's really hard for me to believe.  Everyone reading this who replaces their fuel hoses every 2 years, please raise your hand.  And what is different about the fuel today that should cause it to degrade rubber hoses more quickly?  However, having said all that, I very likely may end up replacing it just as you've suggested.

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

raising hand, I never used to use hose clamps either, but now I am a firm believer in them. Even tho I always try to use German hose. Do some reading on the additives in the fuel and rubber parts. As for me I use the smallest ideal clamp. others like to use different clamps.
Sometimes so called band aids work well wink

burrhead                                      A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion
                                                            No matter where you go, there you are !

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

1964SunRoof wrote:

No I don't use a clamp (I have had my current VW for over 15 years and before that a '69 I owned for about 10 years and I never had to use a clamp there before).  And I have looked at photos in all my VW manuals, and no where do I see a picture of a carburetor with that hose having a clamp on it.  So I think using a clamp there is just a bandaid on an underlying problem I haven't figured out yet.  However, I do think it would probably solve the problem (at least I hope it will), and I want to take my VW in to have some work done on it, so I am wondering, where do I get a clamp for this purpose?  At the local hardware store I bought what they told me was the smallest size for one of those what-amounts-to-a-metal-screw-which-tightens-a-little-slotted-metal-band (label on it is "IDEAL") hose clamps.  But this thing does not close up enough for one of those only-about-9mm O.D. cloth-covered rubber hoses I am using. Is there something out there more appropriate for doing this?

Wow...not exactly the response I expected!  If I understand the situation correctly, and if the fuel lines are relatively new (not cracked, not dry-rotted, flexible)...then a hose clamp is EXACTLY what's needed!  I've been working on air-cooled VW's for almost 30 years (longer than some, not as long as others) wink ...as well as every one of my other personal cars...and I always always use/used hose clamps on every fuel line connection!

A hose clamp on a fuel line is not a "band-aid"...it's a safety net!  I've seen too many VW's that have a burned up rear end (or the whole vehicle) due to a fuel fire that started in the engine compartment.  When a fuel line is slipped over a metal fuel "nipple" on a carburetor...it's only a friction fit.  There are just too many things that could cause the fuel line to come loose...and end up with a fire.  A $.50 cent hose clamp on a fuel line is very very cheap insurance against a fuel fire....caused by a loose fuel line.

Regarding photos in repair manuals not showing hose clamps.  Yes I agree that many of the photos don't show hose clamps.  I think that most of the photos of the fuel system/carburetor many times only show individual components (with all hoses & electrical wires removed)...and the photos of assembled engines don't show enough detail or the best angle to see hose clamps.  I looked thru my VW repair manuals, and I did find one photo that showed hose clamps.  If you look in the "orange" Bentley repair manual, go to section #2, page 8, figure 4-5...you'll see a photo of the carb. & fuel pump...and you'll see a hose clamp on every fuel line connection.  The same photo can be found in Haynes VW repair manual, Chapter 4, page 4-4, photo 4.14. 

The hose clamps used in these photos are a "crimped band-style" clamp used by auto manufacturers...usually not a clamp available to us home mechanics.  So you have to use the style found in hardware stores, home improvement stores, and almost every auto parts store I've ever been in...with the slotted or Phillips head screwdriver adjustment screw.

These of course are just my humble personal opinions...but I would never install a fuel hose without a hose clamp. smile

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

I'm glad that your hoses did not fall off. I know someone who had two missing wheel studs on a five lug wheel, and they were fine for years, but just because you got away with something for years does not mean it's the optimal way. With my background, I make it a habit to have proper clamps on pressurized rubber lines.

Paul

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

Well, I needed to move my VW again.  I tightened a hose clamp on the rubber fuel line hose where it connects to the carburetor.  After starting up the engine, I had severe leaking of gasoline from the top of carburetor.  I mean torrents of gas seemed to be flowing down.  It almost looked even worse then before.  I moved VW to a new spot -- fortunately, the gas did not catch fire.

Today, I needed to move VW back to original spot.  I had bought some new cloth covered rubber fuel line from a different parts vendor.  I replaced the top rubber hose fuel line going from top of carburetor to gas filter.  The leaking gasoline problem was gone!!  Yippee!!

I now have that 5" length of cloth-covered rubber hose sitting on my desk.  I look in the end that was connected to carb and it looks fine. Inside, the walls of hose are nice and shiny!  But, the other end, the end that was attached to the stupid little plastic fuel filter, that end has a bunch of cracks.  I still don't get this.  Is it actually possible that all this gas was leaking out of the bottom of this cloth-covered hose (Bought at Wolfsbürg West, by the way, a place I thought I could trust for quality parts. Description: RUBBER FUEL LINE, original cloth covered, sold by the foot, German), it wicked its way up to the top of the hose via the cloth covering, and then proceeded to flow down from there?  I just don't get it... hmm

See the problem is, I've got that stupid fuel filter, which probably isn't even needed, and its got the input and output pipes which are just sort of generic and don't really fit with this ~5mm ID hose.  The output pipe is too wide, and if I put the rubber hose on it it eventually starts to get a little less flexible and more brittle, and then it cracks there (that's what I am guessing has happened).  So I am wondering, is there any place I could get a fuel filter that has inlet and outlet pipes just the same size as that pipe that goes into the carburetor and comes off of the fuel pump?

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

WOW How did you tighten a non existing clamp?  And you don't think the gas sold nowadays has anything to to do with your hose deteriorating?  For awhile there was some inferior "German" hose getting sold by everyone. Maybe it is back.
Because of this it is best to remove your fuel filter out of the engine compartment. One less thing to worry about.
How often do you drive your bug? The gasoline nowadays doesn't have much of a shelf life and contributes drastically to this problem of seeping fuel lines.
Some people like a metal fuel filter.

burrhead                                      A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion
                                                            No matter where you go, there you are !

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

If your talking about using this sort of fuel filter:

http://www2.cip1.com/v/vspfiles/photos/VWC-803-201-511-C-2T.jpg

I've been using these for years & years & years...and have not had a problem...just keep them away from high heat sources or vibrations that could rub/wear thru the plastic.  At $11.35 for 10 of them...they're very economical as well:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp … C13%2D9100

http://www2.cip1.com/v/vspfiles/photos/C13-9100-2T.jpg

Regarding fuel line...I know some folks prefer to use the original German cloth covered lines.  I use the "rubber" fuel line that I can find at any local auto parts store (with clamps)...just because it's more readily available.  For most applications...I haven't had a problem finding a rubber fuel line that wouldn't get the job done...but there are some narrow fuel/vapor lines in the trunk area & the fuel line on the vacuum advance on the distributer that can be a little harder finding a "rubber" fuel line equivalent.

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Carb leaking gasoline

The fuel filter IS needed to help keep your carb clean.

Fuel lines are going to leak for one of two reasons usually - they're the wrong size for the application, or they're deteriorating.  The clamps are there more as backup than to provide first level sealing, but are definitely essential.

Over tightening a clamp can crush or disfigure the fuel line leading to leaks.

Fuel is not going to wick uphill through the cloth covering of the hose then leak from the top end of the hose.  If it were doing that, the entire length of the fuel line would be soaked in gas and dripping everywhere.

What I suspect happened in your case is the brass inlet tube at the top of your carb was loose and fuel was leaking out of there.  Tightening a clamp won't fix it, but pressing a new, tighter fuel line onto it will firm up the inlet tube (at least temporarily).

Have a look at that...and you might want to check the line from your fuel tank to the metal line while you're at it. ;-)

Last edited by Der Bugmeister (2010-10-03 10:02:53)

1979 Type 1 Convertible                                       
1971 Type 1 Semi-Automatic Super                       
1961 Type 1 Sedan
1957 Type 1 Sunroof