Topic: Starting Issue Solution

My 2000 Mexi began giving my wife the random "no start" problem this summer, while she would be out running errands. I went to check it, and found indeed there was no "click" or attempt to engage the starter, but the dash lights would dim when the key was turned to "start." That meant the key was making contact and closing a circuit that drew more current - so it was likely a sticking solenoid on the 10 yr old starter.

This is a common problem, which is why some VW owners carry a piece of 2x4 to whack the starter when it won't start. The jar unsticks the solenoid. It can also mean low voltage to the starter, either from a burned ignition switch or bad contact at wiring connections, or weak battery. It also tends to show up with "heat soak" on hot days, after the starter gets very hot.

All of these might have contributed, because we have driven and started this Beetle a bunch over the last 10 years, and my wife runs the A/C all the time. The A/C does make the engine run hotter, and this Mexi A/C mounts the condensor behind the back seat, taking in air from the engine compartment and dumping out thought a hole in the parcel shelf, near where the starter is located. The battery also runs lower voltage in these conditions, because the voltage regulator drops voltage as it gets hotter (internal in the alternator), and the A/C load also pulls the voltage down, so my voltmeter even reads a bit below 12V with A/C and lights on. So the battery doesn't run at full charge in the summer.

Anyway, my wife deserves a sure fix, so I put in a gear-reduction starter (also called high-torque) after some years positive experience with one on my 91 Vanagon (with a Golf-type engine). These starters use a smaller, higher rpm motor that draws less current, and cranks through reduction gears to the Bendix. I found on my Vanagon that it always cranks and starts, even when the battery is almost dead.

Installing this starter should be easy, as it is shorter and a bit lighter - but that is theory! First off, the Mexi A/C mounts the filter-dryer and tubing in front of the fan housing, making it impossible to reach down to the top-right engine mount bolt that also holds the top of the starter. I've had the engine out before, so I knew to un-mount the dryer from the firewall to let if pull to the rear, which lets you get an arm in front of it and reach the nut on the starter bolt. The Mexi uses the later style round-head-with-flat bolt that keys to a lug on the starter, so you don't need to hold the bolt head when removing or installing the bolt.

That led to problem 2: the IMI starter doesn't have the lug to hold this bolt so it won't turn. Instead of getting a standard hex bolt, I used JB Weld and putty to "cast" a lug on the starter to catch the special head bolt. Works great.

This starter also moves the wire terminals across the starter nearer the trans housing. That meant the wire from the alternator wouldn't reach. The Mexi engine has a fancy wire harness that includes this wire, so I didn't want to run another, or cut and splice. So I got a 5" length of #10 stranded and some matching crimp-on ring terminals for 6mm studs, and a short bolt and nut to bolt this wire to the alternator wire to lengthen it, encasing the bolted splice in a couple layers of shrink-wrap tubing, with a wire tie to hold it to the starter so it wouldn't vibrate around and fail.

I thought the alternator wire would reach the new position easily, but this starter is shorter, so it came up 1/2" short. Luckily the battery hold-down key also fit with the battery shifted towards the center of the car a bit, which gave enough slack in the wire to reach the starter and still not be taut. Then had to remove the insulator from the spade-connector on the ingition switch wire to get it to fit the plastic block on the new starter.

So all seemed great, until I tried to start it. No fuel pump sound with the ignition on (Fuel injection), and nice crank, but no firing. Thinking about this over dinner, I remembered that I had the rear seat bottom lifted up, and had it canted and resting on the left end while I shifted the battery. That meant the left end was sitting on... the fuel injection computer under the left side of the rear seat. Sure enough, the seat had knocked the connector off the computer, so I snapped it back on and all has been great since then.

This gears in this starter give it a higher-pitched whine when cranking, but the engine cranks more positively in these summer conditions that it has in years. If you want reliable starting in spite of heat and aging electrics, I recommend these.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewpr … mp;cartid=

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Good write-up Tom, it's a big help to know what needs to be done before you turn the first wrench. I've been fortunate in that the only time my VW did not start was because the tach wire got caught in the decklid hinge spring, lol. I've had heat soak issues in other cars and wish this option would have neen available back then.
Although the high-torque starter is a few dollars more than the standard starter, it's more than worth it considering this will probably be the last starter you need to buy. Two thumbs up!

Paul

Re: Starting Issue Solution

TomB wrote:

This is a common problem, which is why some VW owners carry a piece of 2x4 to whack the starter when it won't start. The jar unsticks the solenoid. It can also mean low voltage to the starter, either from a burned ignition switch or bad contact at wiring connections, or weak battery. It also tends to show up with "heat soak" on hot days, after the starter gets very hot.

This gears in this starter give it a higher-pitched whine when cranking, but the engine cranks more positively in these summer conditions that it has in years. If you want reliable starting in spite of heat and aging electrics, I recommend these.

Tom,

Congrats on fixing the starter issue.  That computer connector SNAFU sure made things confusing for a while.  Nothing like fixing the primary problem...just to have a secondary thing unnecessarily develop.

I've always carried a hammer for those "old" starter solenoid issues...maybe I should carry a 2x4.  More gentle when "whacking" the starter...and the 2x4 might come in handy for "whacking" folks with "road rage"!!! wink

Only one problem I can see with that high torque starter...it's a bit on the pricey side ($210)!  Versus $85.10 for a "stock" starter from CIP1:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp … %2D023%2DD

I'm sure there is a quality difference...

Thanks for the lengthy & detailed write-up. 

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Bug In My Nose wrote:

Only one problem I can see with that high torque starter...it's a bit on the pricey side ($210)!  Versus $85.10 for a "stock" starter from CIP1:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp … %2D023%2DD

I'm sure there is a quality difference...

It's not just a quality difference, the Nippondenso motor is more precise in it's construction, has denser windings (perhaps even a flat-wound armature) and you have the additional gear reduction which adds to the cost. The fact that it will start an engine when the battery voltage is too low to turn over the engine with a standard starter is worthwhile to a lot of people.    wink

Paul

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Altema wrote:

It's not just a quality difference, the Nippondenso motor is more precise in it's construction, has denser windings (perhaps even a flat-wound armature) and you have the additional gear reduction which adds to the cost. The fact that it will start an engine when the battery voltage is too low to turn over the engine with a standard starter is worthwhile to a lot of people.    wink

Paul

Ooh don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying that the price isn't worth it.  But when someone is on a budget...an $85 dollar OEM style replacement starter is a MUCH "friendlier" price than $210. smile

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Good points on the cost. Back when I had similar problem with my Vanagon I tried both a new stock starter (2, actually) and relay kit. The problem kept returning, but the IMI starter cured it, and its been fine for years.
If I drove it all the time I wouldn't mind trying things, but since my wife is depending on it I wanted a sure fix.
Sometimes the more expensive fix saves in the long run. Peace of mind also has value.

Re: Starting Issue Solution

TomB wrote:

That led to problem 2: the IMI starter doesn't have the lug to hold this bolt so it won't turn. Instead of getting a standard hex bolt, I used JB Weld and putty to "cast" a lug on the starter to catch the special head bolt. Works great.

Tom,

I think that I missed this detail the first time I read your initial post.  I'm assuming this is the bolt (photo below) you're referring to that the new starter doesn't have the "lug" that the starter bolt "keys" into.

Is that JB Weld still holding ok...any concerns that the JB Weld will come loose or flake off?

http://www2.cip1.com/v/vspfiles/photos/VWC-111-199-101-2.jpg

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Nick - that's the bolt. The JB Weld has lots of clean surface to attach to, and really takes little force - mainly holding it in position until it tightens, and then friction agaist the bottom of the head does the work. Once tight the "lug" isn't needed, but experience with JB Weld over time is very good, so I expect it to work fine when I need to remove the engine next time.

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Tom,

Yeah...I've had JB Weld "in my back pocket" for a while know just in case I have a problem that I can't fix in a better way...and luckily I haven't had to use it yet.

I do have a VW carb. where a previous owner plugged one of the ports with JB Weld...and it seems to be pretty tough stuff! 

With your starter situation...I was imagining that the JB Weld "lug" (that you created for the starter bolt) was on a completely flat-smooth surface...and thought maybe if there were no ridges or edges for additional "grasping" surface for the JB Weld...that maybe the JB Weld could have a easier chance to shear off.

But if it's holding fast...just shows how good JB weld is.  And like you said, once that starter bolt is tight...even if the JB Weld did fall off...no biggie! smile

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: Starting Issue Solution

Bug In My Nose wrote:

Ooh don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying that the price isn't worth it.  But when someone is on a budget...an $85 dollar OEM style replacement starter is a MUCH "friendlier" price than $210. smile

- Nick

Yeah, if it was an unexpected expense $85 is very friendly!   cool

Paul