Topic: Several questions

Yesterday, my alternator gave up.  I don't have an tester, but the "G" warning is on and a volt test shows only 8V output.  It only has around 6,000 miles on it, but it is two years old, just out of warranty...figures.  I know a shop that will repair it for around $50.00 or less and they do quality work.

First question is, should I check anything else out as the culprit before I start tearing things down to remove the alternator?  Could there be another problem causing the low voltage output?  I've checked for loose wiring, but that seems fine. 

Second I'm thinking about replacing the carb with a correct 34pict-3.  How much do I fille off the alternator to clear the carb? (I've been running a 30 with an adapter plate for two years.  Served me well..sort of..and cleared the alternator without grinding.)

Third, does anyone have first hand experience with the dual 34ICT kit?   I'm considering that kit as the most bang for the buck, but the lack of a choke does concern me. 

I've got to get the car back on the road because, it is my daily driver and I need it for a photo shoot is a couple of weeks.

Thanks in advance.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

You can't test an alternator without special tools, specifically a high amperage variable resistor, an ammeter and voltmeter. You can take it to a shop and have it tested.

If you have an external regulator then it could be at fault.

I have a good 34PICT3 that I would trade for parts for my '78 Westy or '71 Super. What distributor do you have? The distributor and carb should be matched.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Several questions

Edit:  I just updated this post because I just remembered the engine in the 1974, is from my 1971 car.  I rebuilt it for the 1974 after '74 engine went to hell.  So, while the car is a 1974, the engine is from a 1971.

I have to replace the distributor also.  Right now it is a NAPA unit that was listed for a '71, but by the housing # is from a 1969.  They assured me that it was rebuilt for a 1971 and it hasn't given me any problems.   I know the Brazilian carb is a problem because just the idle mixture is temperamental.   This engine is set up just like my 1971 SB was and that ran great for years.  The only difference was I ran a 009 on the SB.   I have two 009's laying around somewhere, but only one is good and I didn't mark which was which, so now I'm not sure. 

Didn't we talk once before on a thread about the F.I. on my Westfalia?   I'm still fighting that also.  I took your advice and I'm trying to keep the F.I., but it is continuously more and more frustrating. I did do a volt test on the Westy's alternator and it isn't putting out 12v either, but 9V.  I'm thinking that since I need an alternator for that anyway, replace the alternator for that.  I'm getting odd, random readings at different points on the FI.  So, I'm going to recheck, clean and tighten all my grounds and connectors.     If it still doesn't want to run reliably, you may end up with some 1978 F.I. parts. 

Since the last time we communicated about the F.I. I've studied up on it and it really is a simple system that should be more reliable than any carburetor.  But, I'm 52, grew up with carburetors and I tend to trust them.   The only reason I'm not running the 34pict-3 now is because it was leaking at the shaft bushings.  I need to get it repaired so I have a spare.

(Of course, I said the same about the alternator that came off the 1974 and it is still sitting in a box waiting to go to the rebuilder two years later).

Last edited by shutterbug (2010-05-16 15:00:26)

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

'71 Super is supposed to have a DVDA distributor and the 34PICT3. The 009 is not good with most carbs. You can use a SVDA with the '71 carb but you must not time it at 5' ATDC but at 7' BTDC or at max if you prefer that method.

If you are getting erratic readings on the FI I would suspect the FI wire harness. Sure wish someone would produce new ones. The only way to really repair it is to remove it and go over every connector on it and on the various devices it attaches to. You need degreaser, small wire brushes, fine sand paper, electrical spray cleaner, vinegar and lots of spare time.

If no one starts making these harness's soon I may have a go at it. I would need trade in's though for the ECU plug.

On the other hand I have a lot to trade for your FI stuff.

I just swapped a FI motor into a '74. Lots of unexpected adaptions needed.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Several questions

You asked about filing off the alternator for clarance to fit the 34PICT3. When VW changed to alternators they also changed the accellerator pump linkage on the carb so it would clear the alternator. If you get a 34PICT3 with the newer design you won't need to touch the alternator.
The common Brosal and most old Solex are the old (generator) design, but there are some available with the new linkage. Here's one at CIP1, but I can't vouch for the quality.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp … %2D031%2DK

Re: Several questions

I have the original carb with the alternator pump linkage...how difficult is it to switch over to the new carb.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

Swapping linkage is easy if both are original Solex. I'm not sure how different the Brosol or more reacent clones are, since I've had F.I. on my 1600s and different Solex on my 1200.

Re: Several questions

So the carb from CIP1 is good quality?  I was looking at aircooled.net for a replacement, but that is a lot cheaper and allows me to purchase other parts from aircooled.net.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

BTW, thanks for the help so far.  Much better than that other site.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

It occurred to me today that the voltage regulator on my 1979 VW may be the same at the alternator on the 1974...after some quick research, I found out it was the same.  Pulled the regulator from the 1974 car and replaced it with the one from the 1979 car and there was no change.

I've ordered a distributor and a new carb.  I'll be ordering a replacement alternator this week.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

What's the actual difference between a 1974 alternator and a 1975+ alternator.  Are they interchangeable?  I just found the original alternator that came off of the car and it looks physically different than the one sold to me 2.5 years ago.  I probably assumed at the time that the difference didn't matter, but looking at Advance online, it says that 1974 is different than 1975+.

The replacement one I have is from NAPA.

Edit:  Looking at online photos at Advance's site, it shows a three prong connector for 1974, but my car has only one prong coming off of the regulator.

Last edited by shutterbug (2010-05-30 08:32:07)

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

They started putting alternators in Beetles in mid '73. They had external regulators. Starting in the late '74 cars they used an alternator with an internal regulator.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Several questions

Thanks...that makes sense.  I have a late '74.  I keep forgetting that.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

I removed the alternator Monday (the carb and distributor finally arrived last week).  Took the alternator to the local NAPA, where I originally bought it, and they informed me it was under warranty still.  A replacement should be here in a day or two.   All I have to pay for is the freight.

In the mean time, I'm cleaning up the ground connections and making sure I'm getting good contact and they are tight.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.

Re: Several questions

Well, in the mean time....

Installed the replacement alternator and ran into a problem I had 2 years before.  Every time I tightened the fan nut, everything locked up and wouldn't turn.  Looking through Samba, because Volkswebbin was off line, I found I had had the same problem originally.  So much time had gone by, I had forgotten about having the problem before and the solution.   It was the spacer between the hub and the alternator body...which somehow disappeared after removing the old alternator.  The alternator came with a replacement, but it was too long and the fan would jam against the shroud.  A look on line revealed none, used or new.  So, here I was with the car ready to go back together...I mean, I didn't even have to loosen the shroud or the engine which I had been told I'd have to do,  I figured out how to get it apart almost like a normal car....and I'm stuck because of a $4 steel bushing. 

I posted on the local club forum, but only got responses offering to send me shims which I have a zillion.  The offers were welcome, but didn't solve the problem.   Saturday or Sunday night, I recalled seeing a VW Beetle at a form machine shop, turned garage, in the next town.  Another time, I had spotted a Bay bus there.  So, I threw the bushing and alternator (backing plate attached) into the Volvo and headed to the shop.  I was happy to see: a Vanagon and two Beetles outside the shop and another on the rack inside the shop.  It seems that we had another air cooled shop in the area, something missing from here since the NC floods of 1999.  The owner comes out to greet me.  I tell him my problem and show him the bushing.  I'm disappointed when he asked me where it goes...,meaning I'm hitting a dead end.  I reach into the car and retrieve the alternator.  I point out where the bushing goes and then he realizes what he's the part is I'm seeking, but gives me the bad news you have to use the old one.  The alternator does take one half the size of the pulley side, which is what I had.  As I'm walking away, back to my car trying to figure out the next move, he calls me back. 

"It's your lucky day", he says and hands over a bushing.  He remembered he had one in his tool box.  He didn't want any money for it, just a "remember me when you need something fixed".

Had the car back together and running two hours later.  Installed the correct carburetor for the car, but decided I didn't want to do the new distributor yet.  I wanted to make sure everything cranked and ran like before and that my alternator diagnosis was correct...which it was.   

The carburetor, though I still have some minor adjustments to make, has made a big difference in the driveability of this car.  It still wants to drop idle for no apparent reason, but it did that with the old carb and I'm beginning to think the NAPA incorrect distributor is the culprit.  The new distributor is an SVDA from aircooled.net.   The new carb is one recommended here from CIP1. 

I need to adjust the choke.  I think it is a little sluggish, like it is running rich, but I'm going to wait until after I adjust the valves and install the new distributor before I make any more adjustment to the mixture.

Anyways, thanks for the help and referrals.  Everything is almost back to normal and on a path to running even better.

1974 Beetle- Red Bug
1971 Beetle--in pieces, will be finished someday.
1978 Westfalia--workin' on it.
1979 Triple White convertible--rusty hulk, but can't bring myself to part it out.