Topic: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

What are your thoughts on stroker cranks in general, and is it safe to say that the larger stroke, the less longevity I can expect from the engine? 

I know its much more complicated than that, but I want opinions and experiences with non-stock stroke lengths and the pro's cons to adding displacement this way.  Seems like bigger jugs is the easiest way to go if you don't want to do more than 1900cc?

On a side note:

I just picked up a 76mm crank but the con rods are very lose (con rod journals on crank were ground already? just worn?) and I'm wondering about grinding them down and putting in oversized bushings in the con rods.  I have a feeling (or it has been told to me?) that after grinding a crank, you can't expect it to have much longevity either?  But I don't know if that refers to just the main bearing journals, or any part of the crank.   I find it curious that the con rod journals appear to be loose but the main bearing journals seem to fit into the case bearings perfectly...  Is it possible that the crank has chevy journals? (How would I identify chevy journals?)

-biggie

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

The stroker crank is a good way to add more displacement but more work for you to set up. That crank along with 90.5's makes for a good engine -1955cc. As to longevity? depends on driving style
The only way to see what journal size is, measure it. Yes could have chevy journals

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

Adding stroke alone will not compromise longevity, provided you take proper care as you would a stock motor, and are able to keep your foot out of it most of the time. The only longevity problem with larger motors is that most people who build them don't build them right, and then beat the hell out of them because it's fun. If you go to larger cylinders as well, that requires cutting the case, and if you go to 94mm or so, they start to leak oil around the cylinder studs. If you go to 92mm you have thin walled cylinders that tend to warp around 50K miles or so.  Do your  homework, get a book or two about building a larger than stock motor, go read the posts on shoptalkforums.com, and you'll be fine. The guys over there are quite a bit more performance oriented than the usual readers here. For what it's worth I would stuff a big crank into an 85.5mm jugged motor before I cut the case for big cylinders, if all you want is a couple more  horses. Less hassle, less to go wrong. 90.5 is a fairly safe compromise, as mentioned above. I have a 2007cc with 95K miles, about 45 of those were with a turbo on it as well. Build it right, and it will last as long as you want, IMO.

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

Jordan Hitt the nail on the head !!
  Majority of Strokers are built wrong by some one in the Garage !!
After 1776cc your kind of in No Man's Land in a Strict go for what you know enviroment !
  There are People Succcessfully runnin strokers as Daily Drivers ! But in all complete honesty there few and far between !
  Horse power is Measured in God We Trust !! 10k for 200 horses ! 200 Horse's done Right !!
  You could alway's build a 1776cc and Lie like everyone else that it's a stroker << 90 % of the Stroker Motor's out there suffer this Syndrome ??? LMAO
  Rod journal's may have been reground !! Trying to remember I think it's 20 Thousandths And it's stamped on the Bearing !
  Meaning look at the Bearing for >> STD stamp !
  Then look threw your old bearing's <<< Saved um Right ??
for a 20 thousandth's Stamp << See if this Bearing Gives you what you want !
  Of Course Strokin Kill's the Longevity of a Motor Exert's More pressure on the Case  Journal's Crank Vibration Etc !
  There's a lott that can be done to help tho !
  Super Case , Shuffle Pinnin the Case etc. etc.
  Not all crank's are eqaul !
  Bernie Berghman sell's crank's with Oil Slosh hole ports in the Crank Webbing << Sloshe's a lott of oil around << Good !!
  But Lack of Oil or full of oil etc at different RPM's is beleived by some to cause an inbalance in the crank shaft leadin to heavy vibration !
   Ive never personally built a stroker !! Never had that kind of Money to play with or got lucky to find a crank and Flywheel !
  How's this Crank attach to the Fly Wheel ?
  Some Crank's 74 and 76 mm I beleive are Welded crank's !!
  But realize everyone want's the Biggest and Baddest !!
  I gotta Go !! BLANK !
  I will be back !!
  Realize CCR has a lott to do with thing's also !
  Realize there are 1776cc runnin 50 Horse's some runnin 70 Horse's and some puttin out 100+ horses !!
  Same Deal on a 2019 cc motor !
  Some  where after 130 to 140 horses you need to address Fly Wheel to crank relation as in 8 Dowell isnt enough !
  Wedge Matte or other etc. etc.
  People waitin on me !! Drivin me Nutz Im gone !!
                                                            Sean

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

Sean's wrote:

Bernie Berghman sell's                   Sean

Something good?

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

I got some 92mm jugs with it, along with the case (AS41) which has already been opened up. 

The case also has some strange stuff I've never seen before, like the oil pressure sender hole is not even opened/tapped? Also the front of one of the oil sumps appears to be capped off with an aftermarket plate? I'll have to take a picture and post it.  There appear to be two holes in the oil galleys up front in ADDITION to the oil return hole for a remote filter.  I'm assuming one of them is for the oil pressure sender, but the other, I dunno...

Last edited by thebignic (2009-12-13 09:26:57)

-biggie

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

This Look's Like New ????
  Im Back ! Havin not ever Built a Stroker I can not profess to tell you how to Build one !
How ever I have been around a Chitt Load of Stroker Motor's both the Kind that are stroked and the one's who Lie about being Stroked ! LMAO
  In the World  of Strokers the Liar's are Most definately the Majority of Stroker's !! LMAO
  But I have researched buildin somethin I can Not afford Many , Many Time's !
  Question's you need to ask I can point you to the right direction !
First Most who Stroke are hell Bent for Speed Primarily wantin to race <<, If they say different there Lieing and I must Refer you Previous Statement that the Majority of Stroker's are Liar's, who lie about Strokeing ! LMAO
  78 mm crank Like I said you need to look at the crank for what it's Capability's are !1
  Example : Stock 69 Mm Crank is beleived to have around 100 horse capability Max for around 70k to 100K Mile's !
  There not Counter Balanced they Vibrate !!
  Forged counter balance Stock throw 69 mm Crank can improve the 70k to a 100k + at 90 to a 100 horse's !
  Crank you have may be welded crank ???? << Undountebly you might not wanna Build a 180 horser on it Or 200 Horser etc.
  Fly Wheel to Crank Relation << SPG 8 dowell is only gonna get you down the Horse power range so far !!
  Start gettin up there in Horse's they runn Wedge Mate , and Flange Sett up's with over sized Dowell Pinn's etc.
  So start with crank capability !!
  CCR has Chitt load to do with Longevity and Horse Power out Putt !! Rob Peter to Pay Paul ????
  It is reccomended here in So Cal that 9-1 CCR is as high as you wanna go on Pump Gas !! Here In the High Dessert 9-1 is great ! Were in a High elevation !1
  But one of the Best Engine Builder's I know say's No to 9-1 CCR on a Daily Driver !
  Say's 8.5 to 8.7-1 CCR is better in that lower elevation's will not affect how they runn !
  A way around Timming tho also is Hemi Cutt head's ! << whole other can of Worm's !!
  Allow's you to runn more advanced on timming and Higher CCR ratio's ??
  But bring's us to Head's !! << In God We Tust $$$$$$$LMAO
  Cheap S.O.B. Like My self Might be lookin intoo Mexican Stock head's or any stock head that sport's Stainless steel Valve's and a 3/4 inch reach plug for a reasonable Price ???
  Add 20 Buck's for H.D. Valve spring Pack ??
  bored 90.5 ?? Maybe a Hemi Cut ?? << Take some researchin !!
  Example I build same motor over and over ! I know where My Deck Height and CC-ing a set of 90.5 Hemi Cut head's will Putt me CCR wise ???
  Wich bring you to Push Rod's !! In my Motor's I opt to be able to use either Stock << Cause Im broke but yett can up grade to Push Rod's at a Late date ??
  But I lose Horse Power reliability doin it ?? Matter of Money !
  Plann on makin Push Rod''s ?? 
  Wich bring us to Carb's <<< Head Ache's and money ahead of the game to Run K- Dog's !! Unless you Got Webbers or can afford Webbers ??
     Lead's you to Exhaust Gas In Gas out ??
  Gotta have exhaust that's Bigger Diameter is the Usuall after about 90 Horse's ?/
  1 5/8's to 1 3/4's Dia. dependin on Camm , Head's , Displacement , Carb's Vent's in Carb's , CCR etc.
     There Ya go Chitt load of Question's you need to ask !!
   What's case look like ??
  Im guessin but Im gonna say welded crank reground Journal's ?/
  Pic of the Crank/ Flywheel ??
                                      Sean

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

thebignic wrote:

The case also has some strange stuff I've never seen before, like the oil pressure sender hole is not even opened/tapped? Also the front of one of the oil sumps appears to be capped off with an aftermarket plate?

it's a type 3 case.

scott lyons
http://www.germansupply.com

Aircooled VW Online Parts Source

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

germansupply wrote:

it's a type 3 case.

DOH.  big_smile   I've barely taken a look at it yet... 

Is it going to mate to a type 1 transmission? (I assume it would..) 

Am I going to have to cap some stuff off? (Looks like there are one too many taps into oil galleys?)

Are any of the internal's different?   (I assume not...)

I guess I have some research to do! smile

Last edited by thebignic (2009-12-20 16:35:38)

-biggie

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

Hey Nic--there's a ton of snow here!!!

Seems you've got the bull by the horns with that engine of yours!!

Patty B.
'69 stock bug

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

thebignic wrote:

I guess I have some research to do! smile

personally i would not use a type 3 case for an upright engine. oil pressure switch is in a different place (it's in the oil cooler on a type 3), oil cooler mount is different. these things can be changed with some small machining operations but why, when type 1 cases are so much more plentiful anyhow. the rest is fine, it will bolt up but it's simply wrong for a type 1 engine build.

scott lyons
http://www.germansupply.com

Aircooled VW Online Parts Source

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

Beleive those tapp's are for rear motor mount !
It's a As41 Case correct ! << Say's it on the case Side ??
  Beleive My 1776cc T-1 is older T-3 Case ??
  As long as it's AS41 an Dual Releif I beleive you can use it as a T-1 Case !
  I beleive the Newer T-3 Moved the Oil sending unit << Only real Difference !
  As to the Tapp Hole's you referd to these are Tapped with Thread's correct ??
  Arghhhh Im trying to remember Cause Think Mines in a Baja Sett up ?? Im not totally sure how it would work out with OEM tinn eTc.
  Pic would help a Great deal Here !
  As you Know Im not much on Numbers ?? Im more on Lookin hand's on !
  I will look today !!
  Numbers and case's << Kinda B.S. in My Opinion !! THe book's dont cover all of them ! So Now you got 5 Book's with Engine Numbers etc. !
  Then Most Book's on Car's dont cover the Industrial Motor's etc. etc.
  I guess If I was worth a Chitt at this stuff I would have all these Numbers wrote down and be able to Re- Call um etc .
  But My Secretary could Really Care Less as long as Her Bugg Start's and I dont Whizz on the Toilet Seat !!!
  Were Good !
  Unless I forgett to Put the Seat Down etc. etc. LMAO
                                                                       Sean

Re: Stroker Crank vs engine reliability - how much is too much stroke?

scott: It came with a remote oil breather and various plates for a remote oil filter and oil cooler which I think will fit ok onto the case.  I mainly bought all of this stuff to get the heads and cylinders, but the case has already been opened up for the cylinders as well as align bored and tapped for remote oil setup... so I'd like to use it.  I'm still pretty new to all this, so I'd also like to get into the weird and wild stuff before I lose my itch to learn.


sean: yes its an AS41.  one of the extra tapped holes has a fitting for the oil filter return, but the other is just threaded with nothing in it.  I think thats the only one I'm still confused about, since I'm pretty sure I've located the oil pressure sender hole.

at the moment im pretty busy with my stock rebuild, so I'll be taking a closer look at this engine later in the year. i'm sure ill have a tonne more questions then....

  thanks guys!

-biggie