Topic: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

I'm on rebuild #2.  I think this time I'm going to go for a stock 1600 dp rebuild and see how much I can build a fresh stock engine for.

I have a couple of stock 1600 dp cylinder heads sitting around and I'd like to use them for another rebuild project but I cant seem to find anyone to rebuild them.

Last year I spoke to Johns Bug Shop in St Catherines, Ontario and he said they didn't really do it any more because it was getting too hard to find any good donor heads to rebuild.

Is it worth it to have these heads rebuilt? (new springs, valves, possibly port/polish) or should I just spend a bit extra and get new heads?


So far, the only place I've seen is http://www.evwparts.com which will do a valve job for $120 a pair.  They also offer the usual machine shop services.

Any ideas?  Anyone have an introduction to whats required to rebuild a head? (New valves, grinding, seating the valves correctly, springs, installation, tools required, etc...)   

Thanks for any info you can give me!

-biggie

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/home.php

Try these guys in Toronto Nic.

Patty B.
'69 stock bug

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Just wanted to update with an email reply from "Performance Engines" in Orillia Ontario....

I asked these guys for a quote on an align bore for an aircooled 1600cc VW engine block and for a valve job on a couple of the aircooled dualport heads.

After a few days, they finally sent me a reply email that didn't address ANY of my questions.  They replied with one question: "Where are you located?"  ... perhaps they wanted to figure exchange rates or taxes or shipping into the equation, but my gut feeling is that they alter pricing depending on people's location.  They could easily have just quoted me in Canadian dollars and let me figure out the rest... so perhaps I'm just paranoid thinking that this is an issue.  Perhaps I'm just pissed because it took them so long to get back to me and they didnt bother to address my questions... its just bad business anyway...


Anyway, TEN DAYS after I told them where I was located, they finally emailed me back and quoted me at $200 PER HEAD, for a valve job, and $600.00 for an align bore.   For $600 I could just buy a brand new case!

While Johns Bug Shop (St. Catherine's Ontario) doesn't rebuild heads they WILL do an align bore and they're obviously well known an respected in the VW community...  the price for this experience: $129.00, and they emailed me back the same day.  I had my last case bored out there, and it went well. I just wanted to price out any other alternatives.   I have a hard time thinking that I'll find a better deal on align boring, at any rate.

-biggie

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Ok Nick nobody ever listen's to Me Whaaaaaaa !!
  Reason they qouted you 600 Buck's is cause they dont Line Bore Buddy !! LMAO
  A lott of this is due to what Gene Berge had to say about Line Boreing the V.W. motor ???
  But Realize that when Im talkin about Line boreing ?? Im refering to Ray Riffle << This Guy Line Bores V.W. Motor's !
  But understand He is retired from Boeing ! Also that He is used by all the Off Road Racers for many , many year's in as well that He has machined all kind's of part's for all kind's of thing's some of wich like are V.W motors to take air plane Prop's , as well as fastest Dragg Deisel Truck in the World as well as for Experimental Air craft out of Mojave Ca.
  Maybe you heard of the Plane that goe's Non stop around the World on your Science Channel ??
  As good as Gene was ???? Dont think Gene's Resume quite covers this extensive, amount of machine work and engineering !!
  Not to say that anyone cant buy a Boreing Bar and line Bore << relatively simple to do ! But does require a complete understanding of what you want and what will work best !
  Line Bore is only as good as the Guy runnin the boreing Bar ??
  Now on the Head's ??
  Cost prohibitive !! 120 buck's a peice for Mexican head's !! Preferd in the fact that there cheap and come with stainless steel valve's !!
  Think Ray send's them out like on High dollar Head's etc. to another shop ??? Not sure on this ! But know he send's thing's out to be welded etc. Like Heads that crack etc .
   Another problem with heads is in the fact they like to hammer !! Mean's cylinders jump up and down on Deck !
  Pounds the case Deck as well as the Cyl. to head Mattte surface ! This requires Fly Cutting the head where it mattes to the cylinder !!
  Only gonna get so many Cutts or be able to save Head's that havent pounded to hard ?? Before Valves are gonna be to close to the piston and get smacked !!
  Lotta work for 120 buck's ???
  But down and dirty !! THere are way's to do thing's !! Gotta understand what you want !!
  Example My Buddy has 12 Long Block's sittin in the dirt around His Back yard ! Rained in Dirt and cobb webbs etc.
  But the Head's look fresh on 7 of them ?????
  Be suprised how many people Spend Big buck's on new Engine part's assemble them wrong and Give up when they cant figure out why it runn's like crapp or like yesterday we started one of these motors up !!
  Sounds Good it's one that has sat for year's in His Shed << Not to much Dirt but I simply rann the Rack figured that the Dizzy drive had been installed 180 Deg. out
  Then Wired and Timed accordingly with a 009 Dizzy !! Started right up !!
  I turn um over by hand and feel them for compression then remove Pluggs Turn um over by hand to feel there Smooth and check end play !
  Of the 12 motor's that will need to be torn down completely Im certain I can get at least 4 down and dirty rebuild's that will runn out ?
3 If Im unlucky and 6 If Lady Luck Smile's apaun us ???
  Figure 20 buck's a set for ring's plus a gasket sett new Gland nut ??
Stock Motors !!
  I probably wont even bother to Mike them out ?? LMAO Unlike the canal type personality who spend's all there time lookin for perfection cause they have more money than common sense ????
   I will simply have Youngsters clean part's for me then give the Parts a Thumb inspection !!
  your fingers can feel 10,000 times smaller than your eye can see !! Such as a Bearing saddle that look's Hammerd !
  Often I will take Lil Scotch Brite scrubb padd and scrubb a bearing saddle clean then feel it with my Thumb !! You will be able to feel if there are irregularity's in the bearing Saddle !!
  Obviously if you can feel the saddle is hammerd from the bearing and crank ?? Then the Line bore is Shot !! Same with the thrust !
  But if you can just barely feel Lil irregularity << Most Likely it will runn out ! Clean and bolt case together and inspect bearing journal webb for Gapp's <<< Usually the center large Journal will have a Gapp between the Journal webbs where they Matte if the case is Badd !!
  Head's can be Tested !!!
  Pour gas in the Head port's and then observe that Valve !! Valve should remain dry for 20 or 30 second's !!
  Longer they remain Dry the better !!
  But if the Gas leak's through ?? Then obviously the Valve isnt sealing ?? That and a quick observation for Crack's raised up Guides etc. will tell you if the head's are worth runnin !
  Im actually runnin a 1600cc D.P. motor in My Baja that I went down and Dirty with !
  Goin on 3000 Miles still runn's like a top !! Usual is if a motor isnt right ?? Then its a general rule that it will manifest itself within 500 too a 1000 Miles !!
  After 1000 Miles if she dont rattle , miss , Knock or Piss ??? There gonna Runn out more than likely !!
   Yesterday Jethro told me He sett the deck Height on one motor with a Dime ??????? LMAO Gotta have a dimes worth of thickness between top of Cyl. and the Piston at Full travel lenght in the Cyl.
  I havent Miked a Dime to see ??? LMAO As of Yett !! But make's sense ???
  Hope you actually Read this and understand what Im tellin you !!
  At 35 Dollars worth of Parts ????
                                                  Sean

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

thebignic wrote:

Perhaps I'm just pissed because it took them so long to get back to me and they didnt bother to address my questions... its just bad business anyway...

I can definitely understand that!  My guess is a lot of shops probably aren't quite as internet focused as we would like them to be...they're probably mostly "old school" and rely on the good old telephone for most customer communication.

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Nick---it's Orillia!!    Need I say more!!!

Patty B.
'69 stock bug

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Sean---I'm sure the guys in Orillia have NEVER heard of Gene Berge let alone Ray Riffle.  hahaha
 

Sorry to hear of your frustration Nick!!

Patty B.
'69 stock bug

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Dearest Patty !
Im in So Cal ??
Gene Berge is with out a doubt the Most famous of Old School Bugg Guy's !!
  Bernie Berghman be right up there with Him as Well As Ray Riffle , coupla others !
  If they Buy and Read Hot V.W.'s or V.W. trend's they can famalarize themselves with few of the Guy's we have Here Locally !!
  Like Joel Mohr << Who I forgott to mention ?? Or Small Car Connection who Has Folk's from Germany , England , Canada , France ,Italy etc. come over in group's to Browse there Bone yard and Buy Part's !!
  How ever ??? I have no Idea where Orillia is ?? Is it a Communist 3rd World Country ?? Maybe it's in Indonesia ??? I know Maybe it's in Andromeda as like right next store but still, way to far ??? LMAO
                                                                       Sean

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Sean: I think I get your point...

The align bore needs to be done (no scotch brite is going to work it out this time wink  but the heads, I don't know. 

Its mostly a precautionary measure that I wanna put in new valves/guides cause I don't know how to do anything other than a visual inspection to see if they 'appear' to be working correctly.  One of the heads was QUITE black when I took it off (only in one cylinder) so I'm mostly curious if there is a valve issue with that half.

I'll try to fill them up and see if the valves leak, as you suggested.

I was trying to just do a down and dirty rebuild like you're talking about, but then I ended up ordering a few new parts anyway, rather than try to dig around for them.

Patty: The German Supply guys will do a head 'refresh' for $160 ( new guides and valves ), so thanks for pointing them out smile

-biggie

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Visual on head's !!
  Look Valve ends over , Look that there not chewed look at between plugg and valves no crack's , then look too see if the Fly cutt has been hammerd ?? Then Obviously look everything over !
  Too test ?? Simple >> Pour gas in the intake and exhaust port's see if it leak's past the valve's !! good 30 second's before the valve becomes wett !!
  If you have one that leak's << Try tappin it open and close few times to clear any debri that might be hung up between Valve and valve seat ! <<< In a safe direction !!
  If Valves are flush intoo the head <<< Has hammerd the seat' s if not ??
  You can replace valve's and hand lapp them in you would want the Lapping ring to be centerd in face of the valve ??
  To remove valve's you need to grind the keeper groove's down on the stemm <<< These are usually Mushroomed out due to badd valve geometry when it was assembled on the motor !!
  How bad is line bore ??? You only get 3 swipes then case is shott !!
Some time's if they hammerd the journal's case is shot anyhow !
Clean and bolt case together with big 6 nutt's look for a gapp between the Midddle large center webbb journal's !!
  If there's a gapp it's shott !!
                                 Sean

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Just discovered this place in Montreal that does Westy restorations

http://www.benplace.com/bjp3.htm

Their site has a good tech section too. Finally found instructions for removing hoses from injectors.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

jamesdagg wrote:

Finally found instructions for removing hoses from injectors.  jim

All you have to do is ask. We do know somethings about buses   wink

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

burrhead wrote:
jamesdagg wrote:

Finally found instructions for removing hoses from injectors.  jim

All you have to do is ask. We do know somethings about buses   wink

I've got all winter to rebuild this engine or I would just ask but I just happened to come across that site with the info. I was actually looking for a BA6 tech manual and that site has it. Then I saw that they have a shop and are in Montreal, not too far from bignic, compared to California.

They build Subaru engines for buses. I'd love to hear from someone who has one. I suppose we could ask on the Samba if anyone has any experience with the company.

Sean, I heard of all those guys and I don't read magazines! They are mentioned on the net a lot and not always by you. Raby builds a modified bus engine I would dearly love. Pricey but worth it.

We have out own VW mechanic in my town. He's German, factory trained, his name is Axel and he's about 6'6" and built like a grizzly.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

Yeah Jim Ray Riffle or Joel Mohr  will build you a T-4 Runnin a 180 too 220 horse's for around Start 0f 10 Large !
  That's on an Everyday runner !!
But there Heavy and change handlin characteristic's of the Car !
  Last one I seen Ray had in His shop was 220 Horses and was goin in a Myer Manx Barbie Buggy <<< Not real sure what the Hell they intend to do with it ???
   Sitt and Spinn ???
  Might be worth watchin just in anticipation of cold cash flying out of there Fatt Pocket's ??
  As to Sube's Guy that use to be are Butcher runn's a Sube in a Baja Bugg !
  But it's Jacked Sky High Trailing arm's , Spring plates , High dollar Shock's out the Kazzzoooo ! Just to handle the weight !
  In my opinion very cool But not a Street machine ! Get to High then there to wind resistant get blown around by the wind !!
  2 Song's in that statement ?? Heh , Heh , Heh Im so Blankin Clever ?????? Naught !!!!!
   But Yeah we had a Company one of the Kidds Buddies was workin at Buildin Dune Car's !! Usin the LS1 Roo Motor's and the North Star Caddy motor .
  My Neighhbour across the street runnin one has one with a Ford Tauras <<< Beleive it's the Vortec Tauras << Think that's right been awhile since I looked at a Tauras but Turbo Charged Tauras motor ?? Vulcan <<< not Vortec  I get um confused ??
  Spock Motor in a Dune Car !
  But in my opinion ?? As to Dune Car's wich I just finished Dad's <<< 2 seater High Jumper frame Rail Shaw coil overs with what I beleive is a 4; 37 Close ratio 3 and 4 th Mid Engine runnin a 1776cc Motor puttin out 100 horses !
  Im OLd ??
  But Law's of Physic's havent changed ! What Goe's up ^ Must come Down !!!
  North Star Dune Car is a LOtt of Weight ??? But they come with state of the art Suspension ??
  Yeah But a Motor Cycle is still a Better Jumper ????
  I bounced Ford Maverick End for End 8- 9 time's across the Dunes in Palm Spring's when I was a Kidd !!
  Dammn Near Killed Myself !! Im just not that Much on takin a Beating, anymore ??
  Figure it out the High Jumper with a T-1 runnin a 100 horses weigh's around 850 LBS << Approx what a Kawaii 1000 Runn's ?
  Think last Bike 1000cc I looked at was runnin around 100 Horses ???
  Only thing that Make's this Dunner anywhere near viably Safe ???? Is the Dune's !!!
   Dad Ripped Her Down the Street with sett of street Tire's on Her ???? Squirlly as Hell ???
  What Im doin today << Fine Tuneing and Pullin out the Car Hauler Trailer ???? Gettin Ready for a Week end of Duneing !
  Goin out To Baker Calif. <<< Grew up 35 Miles south of Baker in the Devil's Play Ground Dune's << wich is now Closed to Off Road !
  But at Baker we Go west torward's Death Valley intoo More Dune's that are Open to Dunner's !
  Yupp Devil's Playground !! I know it's really hard being Larger than Real Life ???? LMAO
  All the Lil creep's In HollyWeird Makin Cannibal Movies about Us ???
  Did you See the Movie >> Phone Boooth ??? It's a Real Place !! My Pop's Hit a Cow in His Car 1/2 Mile from the Phone Booth when I was a Kidd we Walked down to the Phone Booth called for Help !! LMAO
  All Braggin Aside Im told Me and My Sister made the History Book's cause we went to Kelso School ???
  Louis Lamour wrote Dime Back Novel's about where I grew up ??
  No Light's , No Car's , Not a single Luxury ! Like Robinson Crusoe , Primitive as can Be ??? LMAO
                                                              Sean

Re: shops that will rebuild cylinder heads?

"They build Subaru engines for buses. I'd love to hear from someone who has one. I suppose we could ask on the Samba if anyone has any experience with the company."

Jamesdagg: There is a subaru converted bug on theSamba right now.  Its a guy from Toronto.  He might have bought the adapter plates from them, but I dunno.  Worth an email, perhaps.


Back to my original post:

I have these dual port heads piling up and I'd like to learn how to rebuild them on my own.  I've decided that since no one else offers the complete rebuild service due to the cost, the only option is to do it in my spare time (which I am happy to do) I just need to learn how smile  Anyone want to school me? smile

In the meantime, I'll probably have GermanSupply refresh a few pairs with new valves and perhaps seats.

-biggie