Topic: Need an Opinion............Again!

Hiya All,

1970 Bus
1600 SP engine basically in stock condition
Aircooled.net SVDA

When I first installed this engine (my rebuild) I had a problem with it dieing as I approached stoplights.  This was pretty consistent.

To remedy this situation I

set points (new) and dwell
tweaked the carb settings as per Rob & Dave
inspected for vacuum leaks - found none
checked fuel pump pressure - it was high at 4.5 - shimmed pump - FP now at 3.4
leveled the base flange of the carburetor (30PICT3 - rebuilt 2000 miles by Keith Doncaster) - it had a .005 gap centered between the carb studs - now sits level on intake flange
valves are in adjust

This seemed to do the trick.  Well, it seemed to do the trick for about 250 miles.  Now the Bus wants to do the same thing.  It will die at a stoplight if the engine is not warmed up.  It will flutter the gen light and want to stall out when warm.  Even when it does not flutter the gen light I can feel the rpms struggling and slowing as I slow the Bus down to a stop.  Immediately when the Bus is stopped the rpms pick up to normal.  Interestingly this condition seems to worsen if the Bus is headed downhill.  And if the Bus is headed downhill and turning to a stop it will die everytime.

This sounds to me like it might be some kind of vacuum issue but, as I mentioned, I could find none.  Mixture?  So, I'm fishing for ideas.  Anybody out there in Volkswebbinland have any ideas?
.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

How did you time it? At idle or max?

Does the engine respond normally to adjustment to the idle and mixture screws?

Is the choke working right. I have to adjust mine spring and fall.

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Hey Mike, does your Bus have the vacuum assisted front brakes like my old '74 Bus did? Or was that only a feature of the Type IV engined Busses? I ask because I used to have similar symptoms due to a vacuum leak in the assist line.  I know that you checked for vacuum leaks but it sure sounds like something with the vacuum and the SVDA setup. Hmmn?

Clancy

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

When you're at a stoplight and it's started running fine again, do you still have your foot on the brake? Seems to me if you had a vacuum issue with the booster (which I don't think the '70 has, does it? ) it would be a problem all the time, not just during deceleration.

I'm thinking it's more of a mixture issue. Float level too low, not much fuel in the carb bowl, sloshes around and starves the motor during decel? Leaking needle/seat flooding it out when you get off the gas and close the butterfly? Also choke setting and proper operation as mentioned below. SVDA plugged into correct port on the carb? Does the 30-pict 3 have the same pilot jet on the right side of the carb as the 34's do? They often take some fiddling to get them in the correct spot to idle well.

Strange problem indeed. Let us know what you find.

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Have you thought about installing a vacuum gauge
tee off the vacuum booster line
hank

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Hiya Guys,

Thanks for the opinions and ideas.

For the sake of clarification, this Bus does not have vacuum assist brakes.  I believe those came out in the 71 model year.

Jim:  It was timed at idle (875 rpms) to 7.5* BTDC as per instructions from aircooled.net.  Engine was quite responsive to tweaking the carb - just about textbook in that regard.  I did mess around with the choke a bit.  The butterfly seemed to be stuck so I took the choke apart and freed up the butterfly.  Everything seems to be working as designed.  The butterfly is closed (horizontal) when the engine is cold and vertical when warmed up.  I was thinking that I might try making the choke open up a bit quicker by tweaking its setting.

Clancy:  I'll go over the vacuum leaks again.  I dunno where the SVDA might be leaking.  New sheperd's crook, and new vacuum hosing.  But this does seem like it might be a vacuum issue to me.

Jordan:  Yeah, I do know that a crummy brake booster will have definite affect on engine idle/performance.  Too bad I don't have one.  I could at least check that out!  Mixture?  That's on my mind.  I do have access to a tailpipe analyzer coming up in a couple of weeks.  I think I'll hold off tweaking the mixture until then.  SVDA is plugged into the proper (left side) vacuum port on the carby.  I'm not sure that the pilot jet is the same as on a 34PICT3 but it is in the pretty much the same relative position.  I have pulled that pilot jet and cleaned it and its seat.

Hank:  I'm guessing that you're referring to the vacuum booster line for power assist brakes.  If you are, in fact referring to something else, please clarify for me.

Thanks guys!  It is a bit of a mystery, eh?  I'll be sure to fill you all in when I find out what the problem(s) might be.  In the meantime, if anybody else has any ideas shoot 'em my way.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Hi Mike,
yes I was talking about the vacuum boosted brakes since you don't have them how about a vacuum port on the intake manifold for the gauge.
It is a dual port 1600 isn't it?
hank
.

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Tweek the choke ?????? I dunno about that ?? Has a Diapraghm assist that work's off vaccum !
  875 RPM is a Lil low Im usually 900 to 950 even up to a thousand on Dual Carb's !
  But if the fuel shut off solenoid is hooked up ! Should Idle ! Often they become disconnected during tune up's <<< Make sure !
  Now on a 30 pict series carb Cute Lil trick for non Idleing condition is to pull the Idle Jett's ! there two Brass Nut's on the passenger side of the carb / Car !
   8 mmm or a screw driver pull these Jetts and blow them out with carb spray and compressed air !
   I usually say Abbra Cadabra after I clean these Jett's and re- install for asthetic reason's ! Quite Impressive for the Novice to observe !
    Plugged Idle Jett's !!! Common V.W. Ailment on the 30 pict serie's carb !
    Now other thing's provided cleaning Jett's doesnt do it ! Would be to check Clutch isnt dragging !! Clutch that doesnt fully dis- engage can cause what you describe !
  But Urge you to blow out Jetts first and then make sure fuel solenoid wire is connected and also that it Click's !
   Post again with result's !
  As to Carb Tweekin the choke etc. <<<< Dont ! Tieing chokes open is a Chevy / Jethro approach on Choke assisted Carb's !
                                            Sean

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Hiya Hank,

This is a single port............

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bus/IMG_1029.jpg

But I do have a vcuum port for the throttle positioner.  If I hook the vacuum guage up there what sort of vacuum numbers should I be looking at?


Sean:  Yep, I had been thinking about turning the idle rpms to about 900 or so.  I have blown out the pilot jet and seat.  I'll take a look at the other stuff on the passenger side of the carb though.  I'm sure that the clutch is disengaged.  The pedal has the required freeplay (and probably just a tad more).  And the cutoff solenoid has been in and out and checked for operation (it does!).

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Mike! I see your problem right there!!!.......the engine and engine compartment are simply way too clean for the engine to run properly!!! You might need to wipe some used oil/grease around in there to seal up any vacuum leaks! <grin!!>

Clancy

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

hahahaha!

I definitely don't get a gas smell from that pic either  =+)

Last edited by Patty B. (2009-06-04 12:10:24)

Patty B.
'69 stock bug

12

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Is there condensation forming on the carb or the intake manifold just below the carb?

Last edited by CW (2009-06-04 13:08:57)

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Sounds like it is fuel starved. Have you checked the idler jet maybe something dislodged or dirt in it. I had that happen on my old 34 and when we took a wire to clean it out it idled just like it should. One other thing when I came across this condition it didn't idle very good and when you gave it throttle it would stumble a bit.

Not a proud owner of Sally 1969 Sedan with a burned 1915 tiger under the deck lid.
Also George a 1957 Sedan, not yet started with Resto.

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

Hiya Clancy,

Hah!  That picture was taken with about 100 miles on the engine.  Since then it has picked up some of the usual dirt and grime.  At least enough so that it should work like any self-respecting VW engine!

Patty:  Yep, no gas smell.  But the thing is giving me a headache anyway!  LOL

CW:  Nope.........no condensation.  The manifold preheat tubes were in excellent shape just before installation.

Anthony:  Funny about your comment............the fuel pressure was actually too high and I adjusted it down a bit.  That seemed to help the condition for a while.  Sean suggested basically the same approach - clean out those jets.  And I will be getting to that late today or tomorrow.  Also a good point about the acceleration/stumble thing.  I'm not getting a stumble but a bit of a hesitation now and then especially when the engine gets lugged (which I try to avoid).

Thanks agin all!  With your comments and ideas I've got a few more areas to check out.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Need an Opinion............Again!

You have definetly carburetor problems. The idle jets are clogged or you have goo in the idle circuit, that will bring the engine to stall. Also make sure you have the small orings on the idle jets before screwing them back on (prevents air being drawn through). (i am thinking that you could also involuntarely changed the air jet with the mixture jet on the right side of the carburetor).
GL .

Wroom Wrooom ........it's a BUg......nooooo It's SUPER BUG!!!