• From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Topic: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

I've got a parts washer and some solvent  (all ready to start cleaning my case so I can send it for align boring) but the case halves will not fit in the washer with the head studs still attached.  I've been spraying all of the studs with WD-40 for a few days in preparation for this, trying to loosen them up as much as possible.

Three studs came out nicely when I removed the heads.  They unthreaded, not pulled out - there appear to be case savers installed.  I've managed to remove two more at the expense of some (now) well worn-out vice-grips and a lot of cursing.  They appear to have some sort of loc-tite or something... 

Without breaking any more fingers or frightening the neighbourhood children with my frustrated and foul mouth, are there any secrets to removing these things when they are QUITE STUCK?

My brother suggested welding a nut onto the stud to get a grip, unfortunately, i have no welder and no welding experience wink

ANY ideas?

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • From: So Cal
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 675

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Double nut them. To do this tighten two nuts against each other and then use a wrench on the lower one. The same method works to install them. They shouldn't be over tightened on installation.

Not a proud owner of Sally 1969 Sedan with a burned 1915 tiger under the deck lid.
Also George a 1957 Sedan, not yet started with Resto.
  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Also try a little heat with a propane torch if they have loc-tite.It will help loosen it.
Good Luck

                                                                   burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: City of Roses
  • Registered: 2004-03-29
  • Posts: 793

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Hiya Big,

You might want to have a little chat with the folks at your local machine shop.  There may well be no need to remove any studs.  The machine shop can likely clean your case and do the align bore without having to do any stud removal.  I know my local machine shop does this all the time.  You might want to check in with them about this.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck
  • From: So Cal
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 675

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Bookwus,
sometimes machine shops like to spot face the cylinder openings. My engine builder likes to take everything off to get it real clean. Hard to get the sealer off with studs in the way.

Not a proud owner of Sally 1969 Sedan with a burned 1915 tiger under the deck lid.
Also George a 1957 Sedan, not yet started with Resto.
  • From: Grayson, GA
  • Registered: 2008-03-19
  • Posts: 444

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Anthony wrote:

Double nut them.

2nd

1971 Standard Beetle. Answers to the name "Big Bird"
1974 Westfalia. Answers to the name "Winifrid"

71_georgia_beetle's Website

  • Registered: 2009-03-11
  • Posts: 1

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

It's always nice to have the right tool for the job. Double Nut works great, unless the studs are really in there. Don't tweak the stud! If you can afford it, get one of these:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Si … emover.jpg

64 Bug
71 Super
74 Bug & Super

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Double nuttin is the way stud's are typically removed !! Get um Tight !! Not easy !
  That's the good new's LMAO !!
Badd new's is Ive Blanked case's up removing cylinder stud's ! Are these 6 mm or the 10 mm ??
  6 mm stud's can snapp off inside the case saver flush ???? Some drillin and swearin etc. New case worse scenario ????
  Here's the deal !!
  on 6mm stud's and case savers typically the instruction's say to install finger tight !! <<<< B.S. But that's what they tell you !!
  Ok 2 type's of case savers ! Standard is a Cup type case saver like a thimble ? The end is closed off !
  Other style is a hole straight thru to the inside of the case !
  You need to determine what style you got in the case as the inside of the case will show the case saver ?
   Typically 3 type's of Stud's ! Standard V.W. and Brazillian and then the aftermarket chromoly crappola  !
  If these are chromoly and some one has wrenched them down in a Cup Style Might be Ok ! But if aftermarket case saver Your Probably Blanked !
  The stud has gone thru the saver and stripped the thread's and case saver's are Loctited in you might be able to Pull case saver with the stud Possibbly ???
   Now understand People do all kind's of crazy Blank they Loctite they use teflon tape etc etc .
  Hope fully they just used teflon tape ?? Either way I would Pull all the Cylinder stud's especially if the 6mm type these are long thinnn and should be replaced as they stretch and they like to break off when torqueing the Head right where the thread's meet the head nut or worse flush to the case !
  Brazillian Stud's are like 25 buck's and Ive paid as much as 45 for the German !
  Realize that Head,/ Cylinder Jumpin up and down on Deck is common Ailment to the V.W. !
  Why you most likely cant get the stud's out is some one tried to Prevent the cause of Jumpin up and down on Deck ????
  Ok Trick's are for Kidd's ??
  Double nut the stud ! Try to remove !
  Add a pipe wrench close intoo the case while simutaneously crankin the wrench !
   If a case saver pull's that's ok ?? If one snapp's off Flush to the case saver ???? Machine shop or I do a lott of Nut welding to stud's !
  Weld the center of a head nut to the Stud ?? The heat help's alott !
  I weld watch my weld sett a few second's but before it cool's Im crankin on the wrench !
  You will need to make a case saver installer tool !! Do you have a grinder ??
  I reccomend unless this is a 150 Dollar down and dirty rebuild that you Buy all new Cylinder stud's ! These stud's are the life of a motor and need to be done right !
  Get um pulled !! Lett us know what's Up !
  Oh and the way to tell chromoly from Mild steel is that when you grind Chromoly it is Black and if you grind Mild or common Steel it is shiny !
Are we havin fun yett ???????? LMAO
                                           Sean

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

P.S. Use carb spray !! Eat's Loctite and Aviation ! Good for every thing Paint removal , Stain remover , Disinfectant, Even Snake Bite !
                                                                          Sean

  • From: So Cal
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 675

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Sean I think you mean 8mm, 6 would be too small. (2,to,II,Tu)

Not a proud owner of Sally 1969 Sedan with a burned 1915 tiger under the deck lid.
Also George a 1957 Sedan, not yet started with Resto.
  • Registered: 2005-06-02
  • Posts: 427

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Try switching to swearing in french---works for my Dad all the time!!!

Patty B.
'69 stock bug
  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Anthony: Awesome, thanks for the tip. ill try that when i get home.

Bookwus: I'm also having the cylinders bored for 90.5, so I'm pretty sure they need to be off. Regardless, the shop that I'm taking it to is several hours away...  no one locally that I'd trust so I thought I'd take it to a 'known' vw guy (Johns Bug Shop)  so it needs to be prepped and ready to go all at once... They'd likely charge me extra just to remove the studs and clean the case, so I want to do this myself wink

Sean: 8mm. I'll try some carb cleaner before I do the double nut smile  Since three of the studs still have bolts rusted/stuck to them (that came out before the heads) I'll be getting a new set anyway.  (Also, considering how badly I've worked the old ones with my vice grips, I wouldnt try using them again)

Patty: Larger french population around my house than english I'd bet... Probably a bad idea wink

Last edited by thebignic (2009-03-11 10:17:21)

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Hey I Stu- Stu- stud - studderd as a Kidd I need the Verbal Connector to speak !
  No T.V. as a Kidd ?? Didnt get the Conjunction , Function cartoon in my formidable year's, and what not !
  Hey 8mm or 10mm or 6mm ?? Are you Blankin with me ?? Dont make me come over there !!! LMAO
  Hey Nick if you intend to Build a 90.5 bore !!
  Have the case Decked !
  If you look between the edge of the case Cylinder hole and the Case saver you will notice there's only about a 1/4 inch of meat there for the Cylinder to matte to !
  When you bore that raised up casting lipp around the case cylinder hole gett's really thin between the case saver / cyl. stud In fact it can become sharp !
  This is where the 90.5 leak's oil typically !
  By decking the case it will remove a lott of the casting lip around the Cylinder hole's and make it where the area between the Cyl. case hole and case saver a Little wider ! As in more meat for the Cylinder to matte too !!
  I clean my case's up In the part's washer !
  Then I soak with degreaser !
  Then I hose her out with the garden hose ! As in Full on Pressure !!! Simutaneously blowin the Water out with an air hose !
  I do this before the Machine shop and extensively after the Machine shop !
  Cut the metal tip off the Hose so you can gett her right down on the Oil ports in the Main Saddle's etc.
  Also how we did it when I worked in a shop !! Dependin On Motor etc. To be built Etc.
  As to case halve's I reccomend havin it tapped for a full flow !
  Dont have to set it up for Full flow ! Can Plug the Full flow hole for now but it will leave you open for a Full Flow system at a Later Date !
  Usual is 20 Buck's to tapp the Main galley !
  Also Scotch brite Green ! Blank the Purple Blank from Napa !
  But case half Matteing Surfaces ???
  Use your Thumb Rubb hard get the Black off the Matteing Surface's with Scotch brite ! Very hard to do !
  But get a lil better Matte and this make's for a better Line Bore !
  Dont use a wire brush on a Drill <<<<< Very Tempting !! Just dont do it !! Remove's material !
  I do Graze Lightly around Cylinders with a Drill and Soft wire wheel on 90.5  after Decking !
  Not to remove metal or debri ? But just a Roughin for the High Temp Silicone !
  Big arse bead of Orange Silicone around the bottom of the Cylinders ! This is where they leak !
  Why every one say's 1776cc leak oil !! Doesnt have to be !! Get the black out the saddles and the Cyl. holes and the Push rod tube port's with Scotch Brite !
  Push rod ports Lightly with a Wire brush << I have special shaped brush ! Harbour freight ! etc.
  2 Long stud's Over the camm and 3 Stud's over the Small Main
Check um !! Double nut turn the one's on the camm in deeper But leave enough thread stickin thru the other side of the case to Nut and washer !
  They may or May not need to be turned in Deeper But check them !
  Get motor halves together these 2 Stud's over the Camm Journal are Infamous for Pullin out when you putt a torque wrench on them ! Not as worry some with the Small Main stud's ?? But check um Look um over etc.
                                                   Sean

  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Sean:  The shop said they would look at the engine to see if it required decking.  My guess is that it will.  I am getting it tapped for full flow also, since it seems to be highly recommended by everyone.


Got one case half in the parts cleaner ... its still a mess after about 45 minutes soaking and scrubbing with a brush...  these things were literally coated in a thick black grime of crud.  Looks much better, but I have a feeling the shop will want them a bit cleaner hmm  Damn parts washer pump already seems to be dying on me.  Thats what I get for buying a PowerFist  (why do i never learn my lesson?  "Oh, I'll only need this once.. no sense spending 4x the money, i'll just get the cheaper piece of crap..")

Also got my first batch of parts today, but realised that my new cam didnt come with a gear (which I should have known, I just wasn't paying attention when i ordered) But as soon as I can get the other half of the case studs out, and clean it up a bit more, I can send it down with a new cylinder to get machined big_smile 

*excited!!*

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: head stud removal @#@#%$!@#$%!!

Yeah doesnt matter wether or not the Deck is hammerd as to wether you deck it or not on the 90.5 bore !
  It is possible it wont need decking ??? But Highly unlikely with the 90.5 bore !
  Understand that when the hole is bored bigger the meat of the case between the bore hole and the Case saver / Cyl. Stud gett's really thing !
  Sharp thin in some case's just depend's on the Cylinder Hole casting in the case !
  By shaving the casting lipp down around the Cyl. hole << Decking !
  This casting lipp around the hole is made thicker ! Some time's the decking will actually cut intoo the case saver itself !
  Ideally I like the case saver to be about 40 thousandths or 1/32 of an inch or less recessed below the deck !
  As in just slightly recessed intoo the deck !
  Reason I prefer it this way is that Case savers gett hott there Steel as the deck is Aluminum and Allow's for the case saver to expand a Little not affecting the Cylinder deck itself !
  But you want the Case saver to be close enough to the Deck Plain that it will be a Lil more meat for the Cyliners to Matte too .
  Just the slightest recess on case savers ! But I wouldnt go to the trouble of turnin a case saver in a 1/8 or 1/4 turn if it were shaved by the Decking !
   I said Ideally !!
  1776cc or 90.5 Require's a Center Line Decking in all the motor's Ive built !!
  Give's the Silicone and Barrel spacer's more meat to Matte too By decking the case irregardless wether the case need's decking or not !
  As to clean !!
  Better the case matte surface's are cleaned << As in get most of the black off >> Around journal's , around the outer case matte surface the oil pump hole etc With Scotch Brite !
  Meaning the better your case mattes together ??? Usually the Better the Line Bore for the crank !
  Typicall V.W. is the large center webb will pound some on start up !
  On 90.5 bore if the crank pound's even a little ( As No Line Bore is perfect ) But often they will leak under Number 1 Cyl.
  Leak under #1 Cylinder is usually attributed to Some pounding of the center Main Bearing Webb !
  You know me ???
  I put um together ! Runn um a day ! then take um back apart !
Quite common to see the Center main bearing halves pounded or some excessive wear on the Cover side bearing !
  Now consider youve removed meat from the case >> Via Boreing you have in affect some what weakend the structure of the case !!
  Oil Side of the case is more Rigid less likely to Flex as the Cover side !
  That's why we install 3 and 4 cylinders first ! Torqueing head's down un evenly or on the cover side first can and will Pull the Line bore out a Lil !
  So Assembling the motor in the wrong order or sequence ?? Along with a slightly imperfect Line Bore ?? Can and will cause Tolerance stacking in the Line Bore wich typically affect's the Center Main !
  Lott's has been done and tried  to cure the center Main Ponding ! Steel Backed bearing's etc . etc.
  8 Dowell the crank and Fly wheel !
  On Camm's would did you buy for a camm !
  What I like to do is runn a stock gear of the Proper Pitch radiuse on the Engle 110  or 120 .
  Call it Luck ??? But Last 3 Motor's Ive done this too I have been right on the Money when I degreed the cam to the Crank !
  It show's ! No Clatter  ! Just feel's smooth and free less valve train noise etc. etc.
  How many Old camm's you got Lying around there ??? Usin a OEM Cam gear requires Counter boreing the Cam rivet holes so that you can bolt it with the proper shoulderd bolt's to the camm!
  Way I do it Is I try bunch of used camm's of different Pitch radiuse's Until I find one I like !
  Meaning >> You match the Pitch radiuse of the Gear to the Line bore of the crank !
  2 straight line's eqaully spaced apart at both end's ! ( Cam) ( Crank )
  Line bore the crank journal's !
No Line Bore is perfect ???
  Now on one end of the 2 Straight line's Lean one of them in a little closer ! To Mimic the Line bore affect !
  Now hang 2 gear's on end of both line's you can imagine the affect that this has on how these gear's mesh together !
  This why stock camm gear's come in different Pitch Radiuse's !
  Make Sense ???
                      Sean