• From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Topic: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

After much internal debate, I recently decided to convert my 6V '65 Bug to 12V. I have most of the conversion complete except for the headlight wiring. I purchased the kit from MidAmerica and in it was a headlight relay. And here's where I need some help. I called MA and was told what the terminals on the relay meant and where they were connected but I guess I wasn't confident in the answer I received.

Here is a picture of the wiring diagram printed on the side of the relay:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/498281.jpg

They told me that 56a was for low beam and 56b was for high beam but checking the DIN wiring tables I think it is exactly opposite. I was also told to jumper between 30 and 56.

Can someone please walk me through step by step the hookups to the relay?

Thanks in advance.

Clancy

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Clancy,
So your doing away with the floor switch or was yours in the turn signal?
burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Burr: My dimmer switch is still mounted on the floor. According to MA the "S" is supposed to go to the dimmer switch....but I'm wondering if it is actually for the dash-mounted headlight switch. I've looked at numerous "12 volt headlight relay wiring" sites on the web, but most refer to terminals 85, 86 and 87. Like this with two relays:
http://www.jeepfan.com/projects/HeadlightRelay/relaycircuit.jpg
Evidently mine has both high and low beam relays in one unit. That makes sense from the 56a and 56b terminals......
Clancy

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

So if you keep your floor mounted mechanical dimmer switch,you don't need an electric operated one.
  I don't see "S" in the diagram. You don't have any relays with your 6 volt system as it is set up mechanical. And all the stock VW's have "dash" mounted h-lite switches that I'm aware off  wink
66 was the first in the bug to go with the dimmer mounted in the turn switch. Look at that year or 67 for diagrams, it has electric  dimmer relays. But electrics is far from my favorite.
  burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • TomB
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  • From: Austin, TX
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,095

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

The relays really became necessary when the dimmer moved to the turn signal lever, which required miniturizing all the contacts, so they couldn't carry as much current load. The floor switch can handle the current for 6V bulbs, and the current for equivalent 12 V is LESS. I agree with burrhead - with the floor switch you don't need the relay.

  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Tom and Burr: I think I understand what you are saying about the dimmer switch, but am I wrong in my understanding that the actual headlight switch might not take too kindly to the added voltage of 12 volts? Bottom line: Can my existing headlight switch handle the load? It was my understanding that the relay allows a direct path from the battery to the bulbs via a new heavier gauge wire and that the relay carries the load and the headlight switch only needs a much smaller current to activate the relay?

I appreciate your help.

Burr: do you see the "S" in the diagram on my relay? Between the 30 and the 56a.....

Clancy

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Clancy wrote:

Burr: do you see the "S" in the diagram on my relay? Between the 30 and the 56a.....
Clancy

Sorry, I was looking at the wire diagram not the relay. Yes, your switch should handle the 12V as long as you don't go to crazy on upgrading your h-lite bulbs, I would suggest just some sealed beam halogens. If you go to some hi-power H 4's, then you  prolly need a relay to handle the extra load.  Do you understand about the mechanical floor switch and the switch in the turn signal handle? One is mechanical and the other is electric to trip it,is all.
  burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Burr: Got it on the dimmer switch; thanks. I will only be running sealed beam halogens. Sounds like you guys just made my life simpler!

Thanks, again!

Clancy

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Clancy wrote:

Sounds like you guys just made my life simpler! Thanks, again!Clancy

That's why we drive old VW's ,I thought.
What did you get for your wiper conversion?  I never bought a kit, just had a list of things needed to do the job.
  burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Burr: Well I had hoped to get the drop-in armature that simply replaced the 6v armature with a 12v armature. But Wolfsburg West and others no longer carry this part. Evidently it was prone to burning up! There is a fellow on the Samba that advertises a pretty pricey 12v-to-6v component that I will probably get once I save up some $$$: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ … ?id=310741
In the meantime I'll probably squeak by with a voltage reducing device like this: Item 309-534: http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw-1-0-4969.html  This appears to be a bit more sophisticated than the simple volt-a-drop resistor......

Fortunately my radio is a 6v-12v Blaupunkt Frankfurt so I'm good there.....

Clancy

  • From: somewhere over the rainbow USA
  • Registered: 2006-07-26
  • Posts: 1,889

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

I thought you bought a kit? That wasn't included? I guess that is why I piece mealed them myself. I have used those conversion armatures and liked them. I had no problems with them. Maybe people were using the wrong motor ( SWF ? is what you use).  Before that I used the volt-a-drop buttons. On one of my personal cars I used a 68 69? wiper motor and drilled out the linkage to to accept the larger pivot and it worked well. Car was a 63, IRRC 
  burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

You should be able to use your floor switch as a ground for S if you want to use a relay.

Here's a diagram>

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/headrelay.pdf

jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915
  • From: Northern Illinois
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,105

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Clancy, the dash switch will be fine and you don't need the relay. Having said that though I remind all of you that the B+ power comes from the battery to the headlight switch THEN to the ignition switch on 6V cars. The headlight switch is the 1st place the car begins to age as all the current pits the contacts etc. I recommend replacing the headlight switch in all early cars with a new quality unit.
All my cars are 12v even my split window. I'm all for originality but even looking at my car you can't tell the difference.

If you are updating to a larger diameter generator you can turn an old style 12v regulator sideways and mount it on the generator using the ground screw.

Here is my split window with a small diameter 12v generator. The regulator didn't mount to the top on the 356 so I used the ground screw here too. In this case a "D" regulator cover would not fit so I cut the square regulator cover off 1/2" tall and JB Welded it to a round regulator lid. I also use an original 70-73 short stock coil with a 6v decal on it.

That wiper control thing from the guy on the samba is on my list of wants too for my new '62.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/366432.jpg

Last edited by DrDarby (2008-11-20 07:19:21)

-Darby
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

Thanks to all of you....Very helpful!!

Burr: Yes, both a volt-a-drop and the more sophisticated dial unit came in the kit. Supposedly the volt-a-drop unit is for the choke element. Fortunately in my box-o-parts I had a couple of 30PICT carbs and the 12v element is a direct swap for the 6v unit in the 28PICT.

Jim: Thanks for the link to the wiring diagram....exactly what my relay looks like.

Darby: Give Wayne a call and see if he'll sell us two for a discount!

C.

  • hank
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  • From: British Columbia Canada
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 430

Re: Need some help on a Headlight Relay

The rear window wiper on '80's Volvo station wagons (245) are  12v .
I've used them in both of our converted to 12 volt VWs-- '57 type one and on the '58 single cab.
the wiper motor looks the same only 12 vs. 6
hank

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting