Topic: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

OK, after 8 years and 53,000 miles I'm finally developing a problem with my MexiBeetle. I mentioned before that I installed a voltmeter (replacing the CHT), and I noticed how the voltage would drop considerably with electrical load.
Well, a couple of nights recently I'd notice all the lights suddenly increase brightness for several seconds. Sure enough, the voltmeter woud rise to the max 16V and hold there until the lights dimmed to normal and the voltage also dropped to ~12.3 V.
This also explains why the engine computer had recorded "B+ voltage too high - intermittent" when I checked it last week.
So it has a voltage regulation problem - I'd guess either a flakey regulator or a loose wire connection on the regulator. These Brazillian Bosch alternators are notorious for regulator problems among Mexican owners.
So I ordered a replacement regulator, then realized I had already bought an adjustable external regulator to experiment. Story is that the regulators are affected by heat, and the internal ones just get too hot.
I guess I'll swap in the internal replacement first and see how that works, then if it still has problems adapt the cover to mount the external on the alternator and see if that is better.
I'll let you know...

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

Tom,

I'm not attempting to hijack your thread, but I have an odd question relevant to your post; do you have any idea how hot your Bosch alternator runs (or what an acceptable temp is for an alternator)? After my alternator rebuild, I've been checking mine after driving, and it seems hot (to hot to touch hot). As that's something I never really thought much about in my years of driving my Bug, I have nothing really to go by, so I'm curious what you've experienced.

Thanks,
-David

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

David,
It should not be hotter than the engine temp. If it is getting to "hot to touch"(where's what his face? LOL) there is probably something wrong. Have you checked voltage output?
TomB, what type of external adjustable reg is it?
  burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

Only alt Im runnin is on a Baja ! Just too add to this post here ? It doesnt get Hott !
Just how hot are you guy's talkin ?
  Does it smell like a Drill Burnin up ! Cause you can smell Solder right before it Liquify's !
  Also Bronze Bushing's have a distinct smell to them also !
  Also like to add here that an Imbalance in the Cooling fann can cause heat in a Gen/ Alt ,
  The typical scenario here is a Vw will runn for 2 or 3 year's around town , short trip's etc.
  Then Jump out on the freeway , and Runn 70 MPH trying to get out of State as in Burn a Tank of Fuel at 70 MPH Stop , re- fuel go again ?
  This is where the out of Balance fann will manifest itself , as a burned up Bushing ! You can smell um when they go ! Especially if the Heater is runnin !!
  Can tell you , that almost all Alt / Gen's that keep goin out periodically as in I just put a rebuilt Gen on my Ride last year and it's out again ! Rebuilt Gen's / Alt's are Junk Statement's !
  Been my experience it's an imbalance or bent / warped fann ! This is typicall V.W . Woe ! Minute some one start's tellin me that they putt 2 or 3 Gen's on there V.W in the Last 2 or 3 year's and it keep's blowin them out !
  My brain say's it's the Fann !!
  Balanced and welded fann's are availiable ! Good investement if you want too really drive your V.W. as in Cross Country Mardi Gra or Wood Stock etc.
  Also I should mention here that the Slot in the fann shroud plate has to go down too cool the Bearing and the Exterior Hole in the Fann shroud plate on a Alt goe's up !
  Also it is best to use a presett Impact on the Fann shroud Nut ! This eliminate's some one having to crank it down with a large wratchett or breaker bar as this can warp and or bend both fann and Alt / Gen Shaft !
  I flipp pulley end up in a Vice then hit the fann nut with an impact ! Great care should be used when installing the fann !
  Other trick's I use is a dabb of Permatex aviation on the key way and fann dog over the shaft !
  Other thing's to also consider here are both the crank and Gen/ Alt belt pulley's !
Cause they runn for year's around town , and the Local Vicinity's !
  But jump out on the Freeway and try to Leave the State , where Higher steadier RPM' is Sustained for 3 - 5 hour's at a wack ??
  Chance's are you will be replaceing the Alt / Gen about your second or third tank full !
   Typical V.W. Woe !
                                              Sean

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

Sean's wrote:

Also it is best to use a presett Impact on the Fann shroud Nut ! This eliminate's some one having to crank it down with a large wratchett or breaker bar as this can warp and or bend both fann and Alt / Gen Shaft !
  I flipp pulley end up in a Vice then hit the fann nut with an impact ! Great care should be used when installing the fann Sean

So this is where all the nuts so tight you have to use an impact come from. Do you preset your impact to 43 lbs as per VW specs?  Kinda contradicting our great care statement aren't we?
   Sorry but I can't help my self some times.
    burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

Sean's wrote:

Also I should mention here that the Slot in the fann shroud plate has to go down too cool the Bearing and the Exterior Hole in the Fann shroud plate on a Alt goe's up !

Hi Sean,

Could you help clarify that for me? I have the slot pointing down, but don't understand what you mean by the exterior hole in the fan shroud plate (sorry, the coffee's just not kicking in today). Oh, and the fan is straight and torqued down to 45 lbs.

Burr, I'd say the alternator's as hot as the dipstick (bear in mind that the only time I could do the "dipstick test" was when I had kitchen calloused hands, so the dipstick has been "too hot" in not only my own car but other VW's I've used that test on over the years now). There's no hot smell, and I'm getting a good reading from my volt/ohm meter.

Thanks,
-David

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

David,
  I guess I'd take an IR temp gun and see how hot it is.If it is basically the same as its surroundings, it should be OK
The slot for the cooling goes down,the exterior hole? I can't find reference to in the Bentley.I always installed it down also. No o-heating problems in my experience.
   burrhead

burrhead

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

The Mexis use a "fan-pulley" on the alternator to aid in airflow through the alternator and cooling. This is available from aircooled.net also.

Re: Voltage Regulators - Alternator Internal

Yeah what I keep trying to tell you Guy's !
Frikin V.W. will runn around town , and out to the county line for Beer , then Church on Sunday for year's and year's ! With out a problem !
  Real test , where the slight imbalance of the fann or the fann wobble due to being bent/ warped , will manifest itself , on that cross country trip !
  The freeway at 70 mph about the 3rd gas fill up on your , trip !
  Now you Guy's got me on the frikin Alt backing plate hole ?? All I know is that it's suppose to go up , so that it is a 180 degrees across from the slot ! Meaning up !
  My understanding is that it's a vent hole ?
  Gen's dont have them , or if they do it's cause some one installed aftermarket , backin plate or an Alt backin plate ?
  Should you runn a hole on a Gen ??? Couldnt say ?? Glue a nickel over it ??
  Just realize here that everything is connected from the Fann too the Gen / Alt pulley to the Crank Pulley !
  On Bigger motor's this is especially important , due to the fact , if you get enough Torque goin , it will throw the Belt !
  Ive seen the serpentine belt's etc.
  But Gotta tell ya !! Have there problem's too !
Deal is be carefull with the fann , Observe how the belt runn's ! Jumpin from to loose or even too tight is hard on the Gen / Alt Bushing's !
  Aluminum crank pulleys << Some run truer than others ? Same deal on Gen/ Alt Pulley !! If you got one doesnt run true or lopes loosining the belt up or stretchin it ??
  Replace them !
Absolutely do not pry the stock steel crank pulley's off !! Just askin for a Barrage of problem's !
  Another help full tip here , on installation is the 4 bolt's that hold the gen/ alt backin plate in the shroud !
  Leave them loose until you have Tightend the band strap on the Alt / Gen down then tighten them paying close attention to Alignment << Givin it a hand spinn !
  Then I even push or pull on the shroud a little as I tighten them to center assembly in the shroud ! Then tighten Shroud end bolt's up and the Shute etc. on Dog house !
  It matter's ! Especially on Higher horse power motor's !!
  Burr ??? Argghhhhh ! Help me out, a Lil here ok ?? Im a Vessel of Contradiction's !
If the Redwood fence is 20 year's old and need's a plank replaced ?
We use wood screw's to replace the plank !
  Cause nailin it is gonna , turn the entire fence into RedWood Kindling !! LMAO
   Just so ya all know ??
  Ive fired people off of Job's , when I wasnt even the Boss !! LMAO Boss come's Back from Lunch ??
: Where's the New Guy ?
  Entire crew of Ratt's stare's at me !
  : Hey I thought we hated the Guy ?? So I fired Him !!
  It's a cruel, viscious, World Just ask Anthony ! LMAO Im teasin ! Naught !
                                                                                   Sean