Topic: How do you extract bolt extractors

I feel for those of you with broken bolts. I only had one bumper bolt break off when dismantling my Bug. I had a couple bolts rip rusted metal out, but only one broken one. So I tried my extractors...

I drilled the bolt out as large as I thought I could and still get a bite with the extractor. Then while turning the extractor it cracked right at the hole. So now I have the hardened extractor embedded inside the broken bolt stuck inside bumper mounting hole.

Am I screwed? Does anyone have any ideas? Those extractors are hardened and don't want to be drilled out. I guess I should also mention, I forgot to remove the broken bolt before it went to paint, so the car is freshly painted and I don't have a whole lot of options for heat or freezing.

John

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

John, u r fuct......Seriously, there is a tool to remove broken taps, check with SNAP-ON tools to get the removal tool. It should help getting your type of extractor out.

                                                                                               Yancey

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

John,

First of all let me say...that REALLY SUCKS (breaking off a bolt extractor inside a broken bolt)!!!

Those darn broken bolt extractor folks (like some you see advertised on TV)...want you think that..."Ooh...you have a broken bolt?...Just use one of our bolt extractors...and you are good to go!!!"

NOT!!

But anyway.  Years ago when I broke off an exhaust bolt on one of the heads...and tried to extract it with a hardened bolt extractor...I to broke off the extractor.

The only thing that I found that worked for me was a drill bit meant to be used for drilling stuff like glass.  It was a diamond dust encrusted tipped drill bit.  I think that I also tried a masonry drill bit.

It has been a long time...but I know that I got the broken bolt & broken extractor out...but it was SLOW...and took a long time. 

Also remember...that when drilling...the bit will want to take the path of least resistance, meaning that it will want to migrate towards the "softer" broken bolt material, instead of going dead-center into the harder bolt extractor material.

As I am sure you know...if the bit migrates towards the softer stuff...that will mess up the threads of the bolt hole.

If this idea doesn't work...you could always say..."screw it!"...and just get that broken bolt out anyway possible...then use a tap & die to make new larger diameter threads...and/or install a heli-coil...and then just use a larger bolt.

Hope this helps,

- Nick

1979 Super Beetle Convertible

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

Yancey wrote:

John, u r fuct......Seriously, there is a tool to remove broken taps, check with SNAP-ON tools to get the removal tool. It should help getting your type of extractor out.

                                                                                               Yancey

John, This tool works great. I broke an extractor off in the exhaust bolt (oh Sh#) I got a hold of one of those tools from Snap On, worked like a charm.
burrhead
PS Sylvester,I'm shaking in my boots being afraid, very afraid.

burrhead                                      A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion
                                                            No matter where you go, there you are !

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

John: If you haven't already done so read up on the technique that John Henry recommends for removing broken fasteners. This assumes that you have a MIG welder or can borrow one or pay someone to do it for you. I have used this technique several times and always with success (knock on wood!).
See: http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqtool.htm
Scroll down about a third of the way for the MIG procedure.....but read the whole page....lots of helpful hints there.

Good luck.

Clancy

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

A tap extractor MAY work, but it really depends on how much space you have to work with.  We have tons of stuff like this on the shelf, and, well tap extractors would not be my first choice.  If the hole you drilled into the bolt was close tolerance to the minor dia. of the threads (biggest hole you could drill w/o hitting thread) then it'll be tougher.  If you went with a smaller hole (good way to break an extractor) then you can drill a small 'relief' hole next to the four corners of the extractor.  A good quality 1/16" or even 1/32" bit will do the trick.  This will unload the extractor and help free it up.
If the hole dimensions are tight, then I'd use a hard steel drill bit.  It looks like a masonry drill bit, except it's only got one straight flute.  We stock these at the shop (http://www.bamanufacturing.com/sp_series.html) and they will cut through some pretty stout heat treated steel, albeit slowly.  Go slow, lots of fluid and keep it cool.
For future reference, for a non-structural part like this.  Just drill the hole out and re-tap it.  You'd be amazed, but you can even tap it back to the same size, crossing the existing threads, and it'll still hold more than enough torque for your needs.  You can even go off center a hair so the new bolt is half in fresh steel and half in the old broken bolt.  I've done this more times that I should have when a larger bolt wasn't an option, not one repair has failed yet.  --Ryan

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to try the masonry bit or find a glass bit. The stupid thing broke off right at the hole so there isn't anything to grab. I may just say "screw it" and just attach the bumper bracket with only 2 bolts. Beetle bumpers aren't really made to be hit anyway.

John

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

John, I had this happen one time and depending on the amout of room you have.....

I welded a little nib to it then weld continuos nibs until you build it up big enough to weld a nut to the built up nibs.
P.B.blast the hell out of it along with heat and your good to go.

Hope this helps. Hope I said it right. If not ping me and I'll get it in the right words...

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

Been there Done that ! 1/2 a Box of dull drill bit's , then break a hardend drill bitt off in the easy out ! Arggghhhh ?
  Best way I know to extract brokin stud's bolt's is 13mm thin valve adjuster nut . I place it over the brokin stud bolt , etc. with super glue , and then Migg it in the center, too the brokin bolt stud etc.
  Not easy on paint ! But with practice , can get pretty good at it , too where you can minimize , the damage caused by heat , to both aluminum and paint , finished surface's, etc. !
  I swear by this method ! Especially on Exhaust stud's , Door screw's etc .
  Next time I run up on this , im gonna take pic's and post them ! Not nearly the Neanderthal method most people invision , it to be with Bubbled paint, melted exhaust flanges on the head's etc .
  Lil Blue masking tape around it to minimize splatter etc.
Craft'sman sell's a Female type easy out that goe's over the bolt , if you got anything stickin out ! They work if you got anything stickin up far enough !
  But drillin ?? You'll be drillin for a Month ! Then like I said snapp a hardend bitt off in the easy out that snapped inside the Bolt, What a night mare !
  10 minute's with a nut and a migg your done, except for the crying and Curseing of a slightly damaged paint job !
  Marhyde cover anything under the fenders ? Touch up paint etc !
                                                                                              Sean

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

True,,, drilling out a hardened bit would be tough, but the bits people were referring to aren't hardened, they use brazed on carbide cutting tips.  Fact is these things are STOUT.  I've had so much pressure on them before that the drill body was flexing all over the place.  The drill body is kinda like a Hilti pin in composition.  Any construction guys here???  Just try to break or cut one of those things, you need bolt cutters for even just a little 16d size nail.
Now if we were talking a solid carbide drill bit, well God help you if you're doing that by hand (vs in a mill or good press).  Better hope you have a shop with EDM near by.
Now I will say this, the masonry bit he was talking about using is a poor choice, though the design is similar to a hard steel bit, the geometry of the cutting head is different.  Masonry bits break the material they bore through with a hammering action, they aren't designed to actually cut through material like a hard steel bit.  --Ryan

Re: How do you extract bolt extractors

I've been up to my ears lately and just got back to the forum. There is nothing there to work with without drilling. Sounds like you guys have some good ideas. I think for this particular bolt I'm just going to paint over it and forget about it. No sense screwing up a fresh paint job for one bumper bolt out of 6. There are still 5 other bolts holding the bumper on (or that will hold the bumper on when I get to that part).

John