Topic: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya All,

This is my first time dropping this particular engine.

I've dropped lots of VW engines, most of the manual tranny variety, but all from the 68 to 70 era.  After all, I am a 1970 kinda guy.  Last time I did engines I had a local shop (they had a great deal on a sound AS engine) do the installation.  I bought a 73 AH series engine from them. 

Well, I got all the wiring and lines disconnected.  Removed a bunch of stuff from the engine bay for an easier drop.  Got all the ATF lines accounted for, etc, etc.  But I've run into a unique problem.  Namely, the upper left engine to tranny bolt.  It seems that after 70 there is no longer a nut at this point.  Instead VW opted to run a bolt through from the tranny side.  The bolt screws into a boss in the engine casting.  So................the bolt HAS to be removed from the tranny side.  But How?  I can't even get a wrench or a socket on the thing.  It's head is tucked under the clutch arm behind the servo (this is an AutoStick).  Even if I remove the heat exchanger and the servo it's going to be darn near impossible to get to it.

So I'm wondering, do all of you post-1970 guys have some sort of trick to get this thing loose?  PLEASE SHARE!

By the way, the engine is coming out to make way for a bone stock 1970 engine.  Yay!  No more nasty bolt!  Welcome good old nut!

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

I pulled an autostick engine out of a '74 in about 1987 and again out of a '73 I owned in 1992 but must have used either a L-O-N-G extention, a swivel socket or both as I don't recall there being a big deal. The first one I did on my back, the second on a lift. Memory tells me a 16 or 24" long long 3/8 extension was all I used.

Are you sure it is even in there ?

Last edited by DrDarby (2008-02-25 22:20:48)

-Darby

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

DrDarby wrote:

Are you sure it is even in there ?

Jeez Darby is there anything you haven't seen before? When I pulled the engine out of my '73 that very bolt was missing.

Jim

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya Darby,

Oh yeah, it's there.

I can get a 17mm socket close to the bolt head by approaching it from the front and over the bracket for the clutch servo.  But because of that bracket (I'm guessing) I can't quite get the socket to lock on the bolt head.

I'm thinking that there is a bit of a trick to this - or maybe I'm just giving up too easily.  I'll try playing around with the swivel and see if I can get this thing to go.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

If you have it in a '70, the trans may still have the lock in place for the original style bolt.  The earlier (pre-doghouse) transmissions had a hex cast into the trans to hold the bolt.  The dog house style trans did not, as you needed to remove the bolt (the engine has a nut in the case).  Feel around and make sure that this is not your problem.  It may have been clearanced, but not enough to fit your socket.  When installing a dog house engine in a later trans, use an allen head bolt.  It clears without messing with the trans case.

Ted Wojton
70 VW Bus Westfalia,  2003 GMC Sierra

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya Ted,

If I follow you correctly, you're saying that the 70 tranny case locks the bolt head, right?

While this would certainly explain why I can't get a socket on it (as it is now I can barely see the thing), it does leave one other problem for me.  How the heck could this bolt be tightened to screw into the boss in the engine case?

I'm pretty much arriving at the conclusion that I'll have to pull off the heat exchangers and the clutch servo just to get a better look at this thing.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Mike, You probably did already but did you remove the left rear wheel? If not this may give you a bit more room to see and maneuver.
David

David
'69 Bug & '71 Ghia
No matter where you go, there you are.
Every day may not be good, but there is something good in every day

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya David,

Yep, in fact, both rear wheels are gone.

But I had an idea while munching on my Wheaties this morning.  Ted mentioned that the tranny case might be machined to lock the bolt head.  I do seem to recall that also.  Problem is that I cannot get a good look at the durn thing.  So..........I think I'll stick my digital camera up there and take a few snaps.  That ought to help a bit.  If they turn out reasonably, I'll post one up here so y'all can take a look.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Just checking the ETKA parts listings, and it conforms what I was thinking: The earlier cars (pre-doghouse fan housing) use a "T-headed" bolt for this location, not a hex-head; and the "T" shape is what locked the bolt against the starter boss. (This bolt holds the starter to the tranny, and the tranny to the engine.) This earlier bolt is M10x110 part # 111 199 101.
With the Doghouse shroud preventing access to the nut at the engine, the bolt changed to a standard hex-head bolt M10x110, part # N 010 500 2
Interestingly the bolt for an "automatic" is different: BM10x125  (part # N 010 494 2) - so it is 15mm longer than the manual trans version.
I'm sure I've seen some of these bolts that had a reduced head size - like 15mm hex with a washer face instead of 17mm, but I don't know if those were on autosticks.

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya Tom,

Thanks for the input!

I managed to get the camera up and forward of the clutch servo to take a couple of snaps.  These are a little out of focus, but I'm sure you'll appreciate the circumstances............................

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_0811.jpg

The bolt appears towards the lower left hand corner.  The large dark mass on the right hand side is the clutch servo out of focus in the foreground.  The piece curving over the top of the bolt head is the clutch arm which you can see more clearly in this next picture................

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/Bookwus1/Bug/IMG_0813.jpg

This picture is taken from straight forward (and slightly elevated) of the bolt position.  It gives a better idea of how difficult this bolt is to connect with a socket.

From what I can tell from these pictures, it looks as if the bolt head may be locked in place.  Hard to tell with this focus.  At the moment, I'm thinking that my best bet would be to remove the clutch servo entirely (its bracket has been unbolted) and then remove the left side heat exchanger.  That, at least, would give me somewhat better access.  But I am still trolling for ideas if you have any!  Any and all are accepted.  And yes, I would consider dynamite.

Last edited by Bookwus (2008-02-26 10:41:38)

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Mike: Tom seemed to be addressing the upper right bolt (fastening the starter) and you are asking about the upper left, correct? Just trying to keep myself oriented.....And I'm sorry, but I have no idea as to how to solve your problem. <sigh>...

Clancy

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya Clancy,

Well, I did catch Tom's reference to the starter bolt. 

But the rest of his information concerning the bolts used to accomodate the doghouse (definitely on the left side!) seems to be spot-on.  And I think Ted was correct in that there does seem to be a fastener lock built into the casting.  Hard to tell with my crummy photography, but it would make sense for a pre-71 car.  When Ted mentioned that in his post, my mind snapped back to, "Oh yeah, that's right.  I remember that now"

But if this is so.......................how the heck can that bolt be screwed into that engine boss?  Anybody have an answer for that one?  I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe the bolt was slipped into place with the engine out.  The boss on the engine casing is slightly bigger than the bolt and the engine was just slipped onto the bolt.  The threads inside the boss rested in the threads on the bolt, sort of semi-locking it together.  Just a guess on my part.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

I'm wondering how it was tightened in the first place. You will probably have to remove enough stuff to have decent access and still use an open ended wrench. Something else to try, if you have one, is a plumbers wrench. It is for working on faucets to connect or disconnect water hoses. It is 15 to 18 in long, has a tee handle on one end and an open jaw that will swivel. It is kind of like Channel Locks except that it's not pliers. It is rather hard to explain but if you have ever seen one you will know exactly what I'm trying to describe. May someone else can describe it better.
Good luck,
David

David
'69 Bug & '71 Ghia
No matter where you go, there you are.
Every day may not be good, but there is something good in every day

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hiya David,

Plantman wrote:

I'm wondering how it was tightened in the first place..........

Yes!  Now that is the mystery here.  If I knew the answer to that one, I'd know how to get the thing outta there.  One thing I do know is that there has to be a reasonable answer to this.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Nuts! Or More Precisely, a Lack Thereof............

Hey bookwus, can't ya just use a 10 ratchet extension with maybe a universal joint on it and get at that bolt?