• From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Topic: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

just out of curiosity...  are there any reasons why one could not install a crank on the timing wheel (that drives the alternator belt) to start an engine?

would there be any damge caused to the cam shaft or anything, if one were to put pressure on the wheel?  would the wheel be at any risk of snapping off the cam shaft if pressure is applied to it?

just thought it would be a unique modification to have a ratcheting crank to start the car instead of electric motor.

dont tell me its stupid. I know it is wink  just tell me if its a BAD idea. and specifically why!

.......


NOT SO GOOD NEWS -> car is currently underneath 2 feet of ontario snow (74 bug). 

GOOD NEWS --> the garage is done, insulated, and the siding is nearly complete so my "teardown" should be starting soon, and engine rebuild to follow... WISH ME LUCK smile

Last edited by thebignic (2008-01-29 10:22:45)

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • From: Austin, TX USA
  • Registered: 2004-03-30
  • Posts: 240

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

The early Bugs actually used to have a crank starter, there was a post here a short while back showing a video of one being crank started. - David

  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

Biggie: Early VW Buses actually had a nut that held the lower pulley onto the crank that was designed to receive a hand crank. On a Bug, the rear apron would have to be modified to accept the crank. The nut was designed so that once the engine started, the ramps of the nut allowed the end of the hand crank to slip free of the nut thereby avoiding ripping your arm off. See: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ … ic_id=4045 and http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ … _id=215198

Probably not very useful on a higher than stock compression engine.....unless you have the arms of Popeye!

Clancy

  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

I had a '60 Citroen that had a crank. Came in handy if you had battery problems. Had the same kind of nut. They tend to backfire and spin the wrong way if you crank on the wrong stroke. This broke many a thumb in the old days, hence the release nut and the habit of keeping your thumb wrapped the same direction as your fingers, so if it did backfire your thumb wasn't wrapped around it. It wasn't that hard to crank. Had a inline 4 cylinder hemi. There was a round hole in the rad and front apron for the crank. That was a really different car now that I remember. You all know about the hydraulic suspension but did you know it had inboard disk brakes? Also the suspension and brakes were linked and controlled by the hydraulic "brain box". It worked like ABS brakes but better.

I believe my '60 MGA also had a crank setup but I didn't have the handle.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915
  • TomB
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Austin, TX
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,095

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

You only need about 4-5 ft. of space to bump-start a bug - if you are quick with the clutch - so who needs a crank? (Speaking as an old crank...)

  • Ryan
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Silicon Valley
  • Registered: 2004-04-24
  • Posts: 587

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

Here's one for you Jim.  Did you know that Rolls Royce used (possibly still does) Citroen for their hydraulic leveling and braking systems?  The cars will self level with virtually any load you can squeeze into them.  The system is extremely high pressure and nitrogen charged to prevent foaming, making it virtually impossible to be serviced by the average joe.  On top of that, the system runs a such high pressures that Rolls Royce had to contract Castrol to manufacture a hydraulic fluid that was up to the task.  Normal brake fluid would compress like water in these systems.
Funny story,,  My dad has a '67 Silver Shadow.  He went took it to the local hardware store once to buy, quite literally, about 1.5 tons of red brick.  The 'boot' (trunk) is huge on this thing so space was no concern, and to those of us 'in the know' weight was of no concern either as the car would level itself out and still ride quite smoothly.  Anyways, the guy working there was very concerned about the weight and possibly damage a Rolls.  My dad spent a few minutes assuring him and he finally loaded it up.  A few guys from the shop then all come to watch as my dad starts the car and lets the system pump up for a few seconds.  Next thing you know he's driving away and car is sitting like there's nothing in it at all.  Helps that they have 'enough' power too.  --Ryan

  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

I didn't know that about RR. I knew Corvette was doing something with Citroen at one time.

My car was self leveling. And of course you can adjust the height while your driving. From very low, as in a few inches, up to the height of a pick up truck. You can drive with one rear wheel off and it will level itself. I drove 1/2 hour on the freeway like that once. Every car going by honked and pointed at it.

I used to park in parking lots, then crank her up to max and drive over the curb and leave without paying.

It had radials in 1960.
Had a timing advance knob on the dash for altitude adjustment.
With two wheels on soft gravel and two on pavement you could slam on the brakes and stop straight with no hands. Will ABS do that?
The profile is wing shaped for aerodynamics.
The floor has about 6" of sponge under the plush rugs.
The back seat is about 6" higher than the front, greatly increasing the view.
Auto clutch tranny with a little lever like a signal light lever to shift. 4 speed. The same hydraulic brain box ran the clutch. It beeped when it was time to shift. Not an auto tranny, just the clutch.
It was the smoothest car I have ever been in, bar none. It's so sound proof you don't even hear the bumps let alone feel them.
The front hood and fenders came off real easy for engine and brake work. (inboard disks)
Aluminum hemi heads in 1960
When I bought it, it had been parked 8 years. I put fresh oil and a battery, some gas and it started right up. I did a basic tune up and drove it two years without so much as an oil change. The engine blew up one day when I was on a trip doing 70-80 MPH all day. Lit up the highway!! I had it towed to a friends fathers church parking lot. Came back a week later and it was gone. Stolen by someone with a tow truck.

There is probably more neat stuff about it but it's been a long time. I see one from time to time but very rarely. Unfortunately they trapped water and rusted bad.

Do you guys in the states have any still around?

Crap, I just realized I hijacked Nic's thread. Sorry Nick, I'm done. I get carried away about cars. I don't suppose you guys understand that. LOL

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915
  • Ryan
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Silicon Valley
  • Registered: 2004-04-24
  • Posts: 587

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

Don't think I've ever seen one in the states.  Last time I saw one in person was probably close to 15 years ago when my family spent a few weeks traveling across Europe.  --Ryan

  • From: B.C.Canada
  • Registered: 2005-01-26
  • Posts: 2,610

Re: starter crank on timing wheel / cam shaft

Really? We had dealerships here in the '60's and '70's until they bailed and left everyone with no service or parts. Thats why mine sat for 8 years. It needed a tuneup!! Who would have thought the French would bail eh? LOL

Decent cars though.

Last edited by jamesdagg (2008-01-30 05:32:04)

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915