Topic: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya All,

First off, the car.......1970 stock Bug. Heating system in reasonably good shape. Fresh air box without the fan.

As you probably know the Pacific Northwest can be wet. With the everpresent moisture in the winter I have a heckuva hard time keeping the windows clear. Any moisture and body heat will fog the windshield pretty quickly. The defrost (Hah! Very funny) only seems to make it worse.

So, what I'm wondering is this.........what settings (see below) have you used to get and keep the windshield clear in wet weather? Yeah, I do carry a towel, but I'm thinking that I just haven't hit on the right combination of the five factors listed below. Any suggestions out there?

Here's what I am using to control fog-up........

1. The two heat levers at the emergency brake pivot. I have the left lever (back seat heat) all the way open (up). The right lever (heat flow) I usually have at halfway. But that goes closed when I'm at a stoplight because it will fog the windshield in a hurry.

2. The heater vents at driver and passenger feet. These I usually run closed for defrost and open for heat. If I run them open for defrost, the windshield fogs immediately. Even when they are closed for defrost, the windshield will start to fog up.

Question......are the heater vents supposed to have some sort of foam insulation on the tongue part in the heater channel? Mine don't and I'm wondering if they are "leaking".

3. Fresh air knobs. These don't seem to make much of a difference one way or the other.

4. Vent wing windows are pretty effective at keeping the windshield clear at the corners. I usually run with them open.

5. Passenger and driver side windows are usually run about a half inch down for air circulation. Seems to help a bit.

Like I've said, I haven't had much success in keeping the windshield clear and the car somewhat warm in wet weather. Suggestions are appreciated.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Well, I am glad to help you as you have helped me many times. I also have a rust free car and had similar defrost problems. I am in Canada's Pacific North West although inland where it's drier but cold.

First off the reason you are fogging up when you turn on the defrost is obviously water getting in the system or being held by paper like mine was. In my car the tube in the door pillar looked fine but inside it was partially unraveled, restricting the flow, and it was damp. Changing this hose increased pressure and dried things up.

Here's a quote from earlier on how that went.

You really should enlarge the inspection hole under the carpet at the bottom. Use a Dremel and double it's size but cut only towards the front of the car. So in effect cut another adjoining hole ahead of it. This is because just behind the hole the metal is double thickness, for structural reasons I assume. The old hose may have left remains on the nipple like mine which I scraped off with a bent coat hanger.

Cut the new hose to size and clamp the Y piece to it to use as a handle. Use a funnel to expand the lower end a little.

Holding the Y piece shove the hose down the "black hole" till you can see it in the inspection hole.

With the bent coat hanger hook the tube through the hole into place on the nipple.

Grab the Y from above and screw it back and forth and down.

Check through inspection hole and pull down to check.

My hands aren't that big so I got around the hood hinge but you may find it in the way. The hoses from the Y to the dash must go in front of the hinge so as to not get pinched. I had to go around a gas heater as well!

I sprayed a light mist of WD40 down the tube to repel moisture since thats what messed mine up in the first place.

Check the hoses in the dash as well remembering they can look OK on the outside.

I vacuumed my heat channels out and got lots of crap out. The little vents at the rear window allow air out which increases heat flow and helps clear the rear window. Mine both had old mouse nests in them.

Try not to mess with the hard plastic tubes connected to the dash vents. It takes a lot of bad language to get them in.

You should have a fresh air box in your car. It can be replaced with a 2 speed fan unit from a Super Beetle. It will bolt right in and mine works great! Some modification is needed for the drain hose and for matching sizes of the connections to the dash. The fresh air knobs on the dash will hook right up to it. Sounds like your knobs are not hooked up. Turn clockwise to close. Pull your air box and check. Those flaps have foam on them as do the foot vents. Seriously, get a fan box from a Super. I know where there is one for $100 Can.

The right side heat lever should be all the way up to get as much heat and pressure as possible. The left side lever should be all the way down to direct all the air forward. Tape up the foot vent on the driver side to get as much up to the window as possible.

In a rust free car the heat system works very well. I have to turn mine down unless is several degrees below freezing outside. I can only use my gas heater for about 10 minutes at -10C.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Oh maybe you can help me since yopu seem to have a lot of VW literature.

I have a spare 2 speed fan box destined for my '73 std. but the low speed didn't work so I took it apart. Problem was obvious. The capacitor and resistor had wires broken off. I tried to solder but they had broken off under the surface, so I took them out to try to replace them. Then I lost them!!!

The capacitor had 1.2 uf on it but I didn't see how many ohms the resistor was. Do you know the value or if I can get the original somewhere? It must be similar to the resistor in the wiper motor. One was ceramic and the other paper. Would it be the resistor that was ceramic?

And why a capacitor? Just curious.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Howdy Mike,
Have you tried Rain-X on both sides of the windshield?
I even use it on my eye glasses when running a boat.
It must be all the warm moist air from the cooling fan that causes all the moisture problem.
When it is really cold up here I have to do some serious scraping on the inside of the windshield, it looks like there is a snowstorm in the bug til it warms up
we have a JC Whitney 12v hair-dryer for the defroster that makes a real difference.
keep'n warm'
hank

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

hank wrote:

It must be all the warm moist air from the cooling fan that causes all the moisture problem.
hank

I guess moisture could come from anywhere in the system especially if there are holes. Mine only fogged up on the drivers side though, which made finding the source easier. As soon as I changed the damp paper tube in the door pillar it stopped.

My '71 SB is rust free and has a 2 speed blower and I have no problems defrosting in rain or snow. I have to leave it on defrost or I melt my boots. I only need the gas heater for the first 10 or 20 min. then it's much to hot.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya james,

jamesdagg wrote:

Oh maybe you can help me since yopu seem to have a lot of VW literature.

I have a spare 2 speed fan box destined for my '73 std. but the low speed didn't work so I took it apart. Problem was obvious. The capacitor and resistor had wires broken off. I tried to solder but they had broken off under the surface, so I took them out to try to replace them. Then I lost them!!!

The capacitor had 1.2 uf on it but I didn't see how many ohms the resistor was. Do you know the value or if I can get the original somewhere? It must be similar to the resistor in the wiper motor. One was ceramic and the other paper. Would it be the resistor that was ceramic?

And why a capacitor? Just curious.

You have me over the proverbial barrel.  However, I do have (or at least I think I have) a fresh air box with fan.  I can take a look at the fan motor for the resistor and the capacitor if you like.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya Hank,

hank wrote:

......Have you tried Rain-X on both sides of the windshield?
I even use it on my eye glasses when running a boat.
It must be all the warm moist air from the cooling fan that causes all the moisture problem.

Have you used Rain-X on the inside of your VWs?  Just wondering if the stuff gets dirty or there is some downside to using it inside a vehicle.  I certainly do use it on the outside of the glass.

I'm thinking that all the moisture I drag into the car on me (I'm often soaked from running laps in the rain) is doing the fogging.  But james has a very good point about the paper tubing possibly being wet.  And you might be right also about the fan pulling in moist air.  Time will tell.

By the way............how are you doing with the river?

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya james,

jamesdagg wrote:

You should have a fresh air box in your car. It can be replaced with a 2 speed fan unit from a Super Beetle. It will bolt right in and mine works great! Some modification is needed for the drain hose and for matching sizes of the connections to the dash. The fresh air knobs on the dash will hook right up to it. Sounds like your knobs are not hooked up. Turn clockwise to close. Pull your air box and check. Those flaps have foam on them as do the foot vents.

I believe I have a later model fresh air box (plus fan) out in the shop.  At one time in the distant past I had attempted the very fix you suggest but gave up on it.  Looks like I may have to give that a hard second look.

The right side heat lever should be all the way up to get as much heat and pressure as possible. The left side lever should be all the way down to direct all the air forward. Tape up the foot vent on the driver side to get as much up to the window as possible.

That's it.  Great suggestion james.  I'll give that a go.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya All,

Had an interesting experience coming back from the track this afternoon.  It was about 40 degrees.  Started raining while I was out on the track.  I had my rain-proofs on but they were well beaded up with water by the time I finished.  So, my warm wet body was getting into a cold car.  That spells fog-up to me.

I got in the car and left the door open while I buckled up and started up.  Heater is in the off position.  Vent windows are open.  Passenger and driver windows are down about a half inch.  I closed the door and immediately a light fog starts to form on the windshield.  As the car started to roll the draft from the vent windows began to clear off the windshield.  I drove for about a mile and the windshield cleared completely.  I turned on the heat, no defrost.  Rear seat heat was on.  The windshield stayed clear!  And the car was warm enough to be called comfortable.

Looks like I need to keep the windshield from fogging completely when I start off.  Then I can gradually warm up the car and keep the windshield clear at the same time.  I'm gonna have to experiment with this a bit.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

I don't expect you will be seeing that resister any time soon as you have to completely disassemble the fan box and remove the press fit fan before you can get to it. Is it possible to calculate how many ohms would be needed to get half speed? And what's the theory behind the capacitor?

Maybe you could measure the humidity at the rear seat vents then turn on the defrost and measure it there and determine where the moisture is coming from. I get some humid air coming in if I go through a deep puddle in the rain with the defrost on but thats it.

The fan box is quite easy to put in an older Beetle. I only need it when idling for a long time but it works great.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya james,

You're up early this morning!

Actually, the fan has been separated from the box.  I do remember doing that because the fan squealed a bit.  If I can find it (that will be the hard part) still want the markings on the resistor?

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hey Mike,
Yes I use Rain-X on the inside--The down side of the Rain-X on the inside is the smell as far as I can tell- do it ahead of time and the smell will be gone

As for the river we are going through a cold spell now and the river is down -Spring will be the bad time when all the snow pack starts to melt.
The Provincial Emergency Program(PEP) is talking about removing the rock from a river that is building up close to a main bridge near to town and trucking it up to our place (2 miles)so we can fill gabions-large metal chainlink boxes- to divert the flow. I wish they would get on with it while the river is down.

I think a D-9 cat and a good operator could do remove the log jams and open up a channel in a few days, that is what we are pushing for.
I've got the parts cars somewhat clear now.

hank

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Mike> Yes I would like the resistance and double check the capacitor value. !.2uf I believe. The fan blades are press fit but it came off real easy. You need to remove it to oil anyway. Mine used to squeal and I fixed it.

The drain outlet is rectangular so I used a large flexible hose that could be deformed to fit.

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

Hiya james,

I'm afraid I'm going to have to weasel out on you.

I went outside and looked around for the fresh air box and fan.  Had no trouble locating the box.  But I could not find the fan anywhere.  As I mentioned earlier I removed the fan because it was squealing.  Now it's not like me to throw anything away (check with my wife on that score) but it is remotely possible that I did ditch the fan.  I'll keep an eye out for it, but james, I do regret not being able to come up with that information for you.

Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Re: Heater/Defrost Settings & Questions

You have access to tech manuals, I thought, hence the name Bookwus. Perhaps if I knew the amperage of the motor I could calculate the resistance needed for half speed via Ohm's law. On the other hand it's probably about the same resistance needed as in the more common wiper motor. And what resistance is used in 6 to 12 volt conversions in order to power 6 V things with a 12V system.

Fan motor # VW 139 591 113  and has a logo AEG Germany.

Could I run it on high and measure currant draw with an ammeter?

And what is the purpose of the capacitor?

'71 SB(DD only 79K(now 84K miles) & '78 FI Westy (project)
PO of '65 Beetle in '69, '70 Crewcab & '70 Ghia in '77
'71 Super inside rear vents now available
http://www.openroad.ca/volkswebbin/view … p?id=85915