• From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Topic: squeak from rear end

last year i had this horrible squeak noise from my drivers side rear end (as far as I could TELL) and its back!

I have wheel bearings (and seals!) to put, but I'm just curious if theres any way to tell if the noise is coming from the bearings or the cv joints, or perhaps the brakes?

I felt the metal around the bearings and it was not warm at all, and I had just gone for a drive for about 10 km. I only hear the squeak once per tire revolution(?) and it gets very bad at low speeds and seems to disappear by the time i get to third gear.  it does not sound like a high pitched brake squeal, but a slightly lower chirpy sound - like rubber.

So I had this noise last year and assumed it was beacuse the tires were rubbing the inside of the fender (and they were!) but have since replaced the tires (and wheels) and it no longer wears.   I've driven the car approx 50km since I got it on the road two weeks ago (before and after the starter died) and I didnt hear it, so I had hoped the problem was gone.  but now its coming back.


If it was a bearing going, would it stop making noise after the car had sat for a while (the grease maybe pooled up and lubricated the worn parts a bit more??)?   if it was brakes I assume I would feel it drag all over, or to one side (which i dont think it does)

is there any other way to diagnose if it is bearings for sure?   should I order cv joints and do them at the same time to be sure? 

I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and do the bearings anyway but I was curious about all your thoughts.

laterz

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • From: Washington, Indiana
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,425

Re: squeak from rear end

I would almost bet that your rear brake drum is loose causing it...Make sure they are tight........

                                                                                                   Yancey

Yancey's Website

  • Registered: 2007-02-01
  • Posts: 220

Re: squeak from rear end

-biggie, I agree with Yancie, check that big nut on the rear axle.  It has to tight and then some.  Also check your wheel lugs.  If any of these things get loose, the wheel or the brake drum will move as the wheel rotates. 

I don't think it is the CV joints.  Usually the first sign of them going bad is it sounds like someone is under the car with a ball peen hammer trying to get out when you go around corners.

The first thing you may try is taking the brake drum off on the side that's making the noise (if you can figure out which side it is).  Sometimes the brake shoes move around on their mounting points.  They will rub on the backing plate and make all kinds of noises.  You can tryu taking the shoes off and cleaning the backing plates where the shoes rub.  Then put some axle grease on that area and put the shoes back on. 

It may be that the brake drum is not true.  When you had the bigger wheels and tires on, there was a different side load on the drum, so when you took them off the car and replaced them with the right stuff, the noise went away.  Now the rust and corrosion has built up on the backing plate and it's rubbing again.

When you take the drum off, look closely and see if you can find any clean areas that would indicate rubbing.

It may be the wheel bearings.  Sometimes it's hard to find a bad one without taking them off and cleaning them.  Then you can see the bad stuff.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: squeak from rear end

Ditto what Yancey and Drscope said. I had problem like this once when a return spring came loose. Another time the retainer spring/cup and pin came loose and allowed the shoe to swing randomly and return to an odd position.

Good Luck in diagnosing this.....

Clancy

ps: Usually when I have a "squeak from rear end", I just blame it on the dog!

  • TomB
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Austin, TX
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 1,095

Re: squeak from rear end

Regarding the nut: the tightening torque is not just to hold all together and keep it from coming loose, it is also NECESSARY to put enough tensile loading on the axle shaft to prevent fatigue failure from bending stresses on the rotating shaft. If there is not adequate torque the axle can fatigue and snap clean off - I've seen it more than once on Beetles.

  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Re: squeak from rear end

I will of course verify this before i take anything off (its been a while since I watched the BugMe videos)... that nut is 250 foot pounds?

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: squeak from rear end

Biggie: The "Without Guesswork" manuals say 35 mkg or 253 foot pounds. More is better than less.

Clancy

  • Registered: 2007-02-01
  • Posts: 220

Re: squeak from rear end

Biggie, I use a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar with about a 6 foot piece of pipe on it to tighten those nuts.  Get em as tight as I can by hand, then I stand on the end of the pipe until it won't turn anymore.  Then hope like hell one of the cotter pin holes line up.

  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Re: squeak from rear end

OK.  The brake drum had a slight jiggle before i even removed the pin... shouldnt it be completely secure?   I got in there and the nut moved back off with maybe 20 pounds of force TOPS.. Not NEARLY enough I would imagine. 

When I pulled off the drum, a pile of disintegrated splines (from the drum) fell out onto the floor. The axel looks like its still in good shape, with no noticable wear (only a cursory inspection though) but the drum will clearly need to be replaced. Some of the splines on the drum have almost no material left at all. 

What do you make of this?  Being that loose, I'm sure it has more than a little to do with my "squeak" ...  But what was the cause of what?  Did an improper axel nut cause it to be loose, and it disintegrated over time due to vibration and incorrect pressure, or could the drum simply have been too old, and the disintegration of the splines cause it to shift on the axel?

I'll have to check the other side of the car and see whats going on over there.

When pushing the car into the garage I could hear the "squeak" very clearly from the drivers rear wheel. At slow speeds (pushing it just slightly) it sounded like a clicking or snapping sound, like something juuuussssst grabbing and then releasing.   In terms of what I found with the loose nut and destroyed splines, which parts could have been making this noise?

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • From: Portage, Indiana
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 454

Re: squeak from rear end

Your noise was most likely the drum working slightly on the axle and the splines, probably caused by improper torque on the nut. Was there a cotter pin in the nut at all? If so, somebody really screwed up somewhere down the line. If the axle is ok, you can probably get away with just a new drum, and if the bearing seals aren't beat up just make sure you get all the metal shavings out of the axle splines. If you got shavings into the bearing area that is another issue altogether. I would venture to say that your noise will be gone once you replace the drum and whatever else is eaten up.

Jordan

  • From: Chico, CA
  • Registered: 2005-11-03
  • Posts: 320

Re: squeak from rear end

Is your drum original, or has it been replaced?  Some after market drums are notorious for those splines to falling apart.  If original, I would suspect the nut not being torqued right.  If the stub axle is bad, you can find those easily at a junk yard.

John

Last edited by johneliot (2007-04-18 17:04:54)

John

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
    Sir Winston Churchill
  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-06-11
  • Posts: 266

Re: squeak from rear end

There was a pin in it so it couldnt have worked that loose on its own.   

Judging by the condition of the rest of the drum, it could very well have been the original drum (74)

-biggie

thebignic's Website

  • Registered: 2005-06-02
  • Posts: 427

Re: squeak from rear end

Nic
Good to hear you're just jumping in and doing it yourself!
But I guess you couldn't find any help locally?
Were are you getting your parts from up there?

I'm hoping to get my bug home this summer or maybe later this spring after it's checked out at my new mechanic's in Oakville.
So if I see a bug around town or the beaches how will I know it's you?  I think the priest drives a yellow one with losts of rust.
Also caught site of a dark green Bay camper in the back yard of a place in Midland.  Just opposite Forget's autobody on Bay before 4th.  The camper is right at the fence of a house on the south side of Bay street but it's house faces the next street over.  I wonder how long that's been there?
There's also wrecked 73/74 bug behind a house (on the east side) near a shed somewhere around that big weird 'Crow's Nest' sign on 93-'can't remember exactly--I wonder if that could be a parts car for you?
Patty

Keep up the good work!

Patty B.
'69 stock bug
  • Registered: 2007-02-01
  • Posts: 220

Re: squeak from rear end

my guess is whoever was the last one to have the drum off didn't tighten it up when they put it back on.  This was a common problem when these cars were more plentiful.  Most "do it yourselfers" don't have a socket that large in their home tool box.  So it usually gets put on with an adjustable wrench.  Can't get much torque with that, so they just make it as tight as they can and put in the cotter pin where ever it will go.

So now, when you drive it, there is movement between the splines on the axle and the drum.  Each time the wheel rotates, the force grinds on the splines.  Each time you start or stop, it just hammers them some more.  Sooner or later, you end up with wrecked parts.

What you were hearing was probably the drum rubbing on the shoes.

  • From: ARAD, ROMANIA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: squeak from rear end

drscope wrote:

Biggie, I use a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar with about a 6 foot piece of pipe on it to tighten those nuts.  Get em as tight as I can by hand, then I stand on the end of the pipe until it won't turn anymore.  Then hope like hell one of the cotter pin holes line up.

I like this method... it works OK ... i use it too. smile
AS for the topic's problem, it could be that the brake drum has changed shape from round to oval. Had the right rear shoe replaced for that problem, it made terrible noises when the brakeshoes rubbed the drumbrake.

Last edited by SKULL_MAn (2007-04-19 02:27:30)

Wroom Wrooom ........it's a BUg......nooooo It's SUPER BUG!!!