Topic: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

This shows what a pile of money can accomplish.  The car is for sale in Australia for AU$23000 (about US$17500).

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/view … ?tid=52517

David H
'66 VW Beetle w/sunroof
http://tinyurl.com/qhw59
"Where am I going ... and why am I in this handbasket?"

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Sorry man, but twin blowers and he only pulled a 9.5?  Impressive is the guys that are knocking on 8's NA, or VWP that were the first with a 6s slip AND the first over 200mph.  Their red 'Vert is street legal and pulls 9's in a pan car.  Money can do alot of stuff, but it takes talent to do that.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Documentation of your statement?

Comparison of car weights?

Comparison of Cubic Inches?

What fuels being used?

What engine modifications were made?

Etc, etc, etc.


I wasn't trying to say this car is the fastest in the world.  I was trying to show that a well made engine can be put in a more or less stock configured car and can be made to go 140 MPH in 9.5 Seconds, and can be had for less than $18000. 

All that your statements show is that spending more money can get better performance.  Everyone knows that.

David H
'66 VW Beetle w/sunroof
http://tinyurl.com/qhw59
"Where am I going ... and why am I in this handbasket?"

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Rear the first sentance of your own post

"This shows what a pile of money can accomplish"

Seems you didn't know it untill just now.  Spending more money won't get you more performance, Alky Hilborne injection through dual blowers proves that.  Talent gets you performance, a NA 8s timeslip shows that.
Give me a freaking break, the Lauffers at VW Paradise should need no introductions.  And after a little homework on the CLF the Red Barron recently set a record with a 8.81@ 151.8 at a BOR event this summer.  Since you always seem to need proof - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU5EAzioJaQ
As much as you like to argue with me, one would think you'd do a little more research before spouting off.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

OK sonny, compare the money in the CBB car to the money in the Red Baron and get back to me.  If you answer with anything other than what I've asked it just shows you're only interested in being an argumentative A-H who can't read.   You might try reading my posts more closely and quit trying to one-up me with non sequitars.

David H
'66 VW Beetle w/sunroof
http://tinyurl.com/qhw59
"Where am I going ... and why am I in this handbasket?"

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

In it right now or what it took to get there.  I doubt you could do the latter either.
FWIW, you started the pissing match, quite awhile ago, I'm just having fun now beating you at your own game.  If it upsets you, maybe you'll think before you speak in the future.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

OK, boys, let me jump in here with a question or two....and, no, I'm not at all familiar with race, drag or other high performance stuff so these are really innocent questions to keep the dialog flowing and not an attempt to bait anyone.

I see that the cylinders do not have any kind of cooling fins. Are they cast or are they milled out of some sort of billet? What sort of materials are used for these types of "custom made barrels"? Since the engine is only used for very short periods of time, is it safe to assume that there is really no need for the cooling fins?

What are the "burst valves" for? I'm assuming that they prevent some sort of 'over-pressure" condition? What sort of money is involved in this engine setup?

Yeah, I could probably do a lot of research and not need to ask these questions but for me, this is more of an idle curiosity sort of thing......

Thanks, guys.

Clancy

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

You're correct, the barrels have no fins.  These engines run for seconds at a time and that's it.  Also, when you step up to larger bore sizes over the traditional 94mm you are in custom territory.  The cost of adding fins at this level is outrageous when the part is getting replaced so often.  The cylinders are either cast or billet, depending on the manufacturer.  The lack of fins also allows for higher cylinder pressures to be achieved with reduced risk of splitting a cylinder.
Burst valves AKA popoff valves are a saftey feature required once you reach a certain level of performance in a forced induction setup.  Without them an intake backfire could turn your upper end into a huge grenade.  They are used in Nitrous applications as well for the same reason.  The explosion will be controlled and effective 'aimed' in a safe'r' manner.
Regardless of what anyone tells you, you don't just build an engine like what was shown in the link for the price stated.  That price does not include the years of experience, trial, error, error, and more error that goes into finding that winning combo.  It's possible to build a 9s boosted engine for around 10k or even less if you know what you're doing.  Much less if you do ALL your own work, machining,,, everything.  This is how most of the top level cars come to be, they are projects of people that already work in the industry.  They do their own work and draw on the experience of those around them.  A $4k set of heads will only cost a head porter a weekend or two of work plus parts.
Don't forget that all this is only for an engine.  Getting a car setup to turn a low number takes quite a bit as well.  Money isn't so important here as experience is.  All the power in the world doesn't mean squat if you can't get it to the ground.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

so the motor has to spin <740 times to do that 1/4 mile
does that seem right?
I'm guessing it spins 7000rpm
cool
hank
you guys quit the pissing match just kidding

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Depends on the engine.  Turbos don't need rpms to make power.  NA engines can spin like crazy at that performance level.  10k isn't unheard of.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Ryan: Thanks for the info. As I read through the thread that accompanied the engine photos it is very apparent, as you say, that experience plays an absolutely essential role in creating such an engine. But heck, I have enough fun just building my little old stockers.....

Thanks, again, for the answers.

Clancy

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Something I just noticed about that build that I didn't catch the first time around.  I wonder how badly they beat their mains up by still using the stock 'small' #4 bearing in a blower application.  That bearing is not meant to handle loads like that.  Another odd thing, they say the rods are taking a beating from abuse in a forced induction application, that's backwards.  Rods in blown/turbo engines have an easier life than NA engines,,, unless you are detonating.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

did that motor start out as a 2.1L wasserboxer ?
and they trimmed the water jackets off
awesome

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Yes and no, using a wasser case as a starting point for a type 1 has been gaining popularity over the last few years.  It's got all the strength of a Type 4, but is still essentially a Type 1.  This means a much better selection of parts with a strong backbone to support it all.  --Ryan

Re: 9.5 Sec, 140 MPH Beetle

Ryan wrote:

Depends on the engine.  Turbos don't need rpms to make power.  NA engines can spin like crazy at that performance level.  10k isn't unheard of.  --Ryan

Isn't it blowers that don't need rpm to make power

turbos have to have the rpm to have the exhaust to spin them

hank

'57 bug "BlackBerry"
'58 type261 single cab "Ruf"
'86 vanagon syncro "Syncro da Dr.Mayo"
and way too many project waiting