009 distributor (Page 1 of 3)

I've been running 009's for 25 years on both vans and bugs and never had any of the problems you mention. I've used the 009 with single, dual, progressive carbs and never encountered problems after the jetting was worked out. I've had engines from 40HP to 2000cc. So I don't see a problem. YNNV

ditto

Just to clarify what I said.

I'm NOT saying that if you have a 009 districutor you will have problems.

I AM saying that if you DO have engine problems AND have a 009 distributor, then changing to a vacuum distributor will go a long way towards solving your problems. 

There are tons of people who have 009s and love them.  There are also tons of people who have poorly running engines with 009s and think that the problems are carburetor related.   

I just don't understand the mystique of the 009.  They are marketed as a performance item, as if installing one will give better performance.   The truth is that they are of value ONLY if you have a built up, modified engine.  The 009 doesn't provide the performance, rather, they are an add-on to a performance engine.

Found this article recently which i found interesting about the 009 and pict34 carbs http://www.aircooledtech.com/34pict3_modification/ another possible option...........

Rkmolina

Last edited by rkmolina (2006-04-26 09:58:39)

My Beetle also came with an 009 when I bought it.

I can think of 4 reasons off the bat why someone might use an 009 distributer (assuming they were like me initially...and did not know about the potential problems with them):

1.  Price...price is much lower than replacement vacuum advance distributers.

2.  A new 009 distributer probably works better than an old crusty vacuum advance distributer with a busted diaphram.

3.  "Perceived" performance increase...due to "shifty" advertising by parts places.

4.  009 distributer takes up less space, and less engine compartment clutter (no vacuum diaphram, no vacuum hoses).

As I said these are possible reasons that I or someone else might choose to use an 009 distributer...without being aware of the potential problems with them.

That being said...I did originally have the typical hesitation problems/flat spot with the 009 & my 30/31 pict 1 carb. 

I decided to get an SVDA distributer...but then found out I needed to have a 34 Pict 3 carb to use the SVDA...so I ended up buying one new & one used 34 pict 3 carbs. 

I couldn't get either 34 pict 3 carb to work properly (either defective carb, or dirt clogging it somewhere)...so I went back to my 30/31 pict 1 carb & 009. 

But this time around I installed the Petronix electronic ignition...and have not had any hesitation or flat spot problems.

So now I think that I have the best of both worlds...less engine compartment clutter by using the 009...and no 009 flat spot by using the electronic ignition.

Although...I would like to have the increased gas mileage that you are supposed to get with the 34 pict 3 & SVDA distributer combination.

- Nick

Last edited by Bug In My Nose (2006-04-26 11:27:43)

Good thread, David. One very important consideration in the choice of 009 vs. vacuum is how an individual drives.

John Muir is probably the source of many VWs with 009s, since his is often the first (and sometimes only) manual that new VW owners purchase. He states: "....with the Mechanical type, you must keep your foot on the accelerator with verve, elan and confidence as it won't forgive inattention." I think in this regard he is telling you that if you own a VW you should be attuned to your car, because no one wants to be guilty of inattentiveness or anything less than "verve, elan and confidence".  And earlier in his rap on distributors, he states in reference to vacuum dizzies: "They are another sop to American buyers who refuse to learn to shift a car with a little coordination." By this, I sense he is stating that if you have a vacuum dizzy you are just falling prey to being a lazy American. Like it or not, Muir sets the stage for many new VW owners.

I had owned my vacuum-dizzied '65 Bug for several years before the first engine rebuild. Since I wasn't inclined to rebuild it myself, I had a shop do it and they installed a 009. I drove this for several years. One day, I opted on a whim to switch back to my old vaccum dizzy. My engine's performance seemed to improve, especially from a start and when accelerating up hills. And my mileage improved. That was enough for me to toss the 009 and stay with the vacuum.  I guess I'm one of the American buyers Muir looked down his nose at. So be it. But later, after Gore invented the internet, I realized that my decision was being confirmed by others.

But my point is: it is really a highly variable choice and very much based upon your engine, your terrain, and your driving style.

Thanks for the thread, David.

Clancy

Clancy and Mike,

Right on - It looks like this whole 009 thing is tracable to Muir.

What Muir is saying is that the requirement for driving with with a 009 is to keep your foot in it at all times.  In other words, keep the rpms up.  This will decrease the effects of the low rpm flat spot.  It will also decrease your gas mileage.

When you're starting out in 1st with a 009, you have to keep the revs up and slip the clutch until you're well on your way to avoid the flat spot.  With a vacuum distributor, you can just let the clutch out and go merrily on your way.

Conditions where the engine is under load but slowing down (climbing hills) will result in a loss of power with a 009 as the rpms decrease, resulting in a need to downshift to bring the power up.  With a vacuum distributor, the decrease in rpms and rising venturi vacuum will cause the distributor to advance, resulting in more power from the engine and forestalling the need to downshift.

The 009 is great for racing (consstant high rpms) or aircraft and generators (steady rpm), but is next to useless for varying rpm applications (around town, stop and go driving).

I've said before, and I'll say it again, you can do whatever you want to your car and engine - you own them.  But when you come on this forum and describe problems that you're having with the way your car is running, and you have a 009 distributor, try to be open minded enough that you can accept that part (if not all) of the problem MIGHT be tracable to the 009. 

You can fiddle with various venturi sized carburetors, jet size, float height, accelerator pump throw, and advance curves all day long and maybe come up with a combination that works fairly well with a 009.  OR, you can jsut put in a distributor that was designed (by highly paid automotive engineers who presumably knew what they were doing) for the engine in the first place.

I'll say it one last time (wow, you mean he's finally going to shut the h*** up?) - installing a 009 does not give you better performance, but if you have a built up, high performance engine and/or get a kick out of high throttle settings, then a 009 is probably okay to use.