Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
Yeah But I See Problem,s with your sources ! One I would like too know the source of info and 2 from what year,s were sources obtained ? Are these with German Head,s made In Germany ? Or Are we Talkin Brazillian Heads ? Then theres aftermarket heads ? Just cause Volkswagen reccomends anti seize on a single port head plugg in 1970 not neccessarily true for a head made in Brazil in 1980 ! But Good Info Non The less ! Jobb Well Done ! As For me what has worked many year,s is Use Bosch pluggs only ! Never pull a Plugg on Hot Motor ! And I use no anti seize . << Might change this Practice ! But as with all thing,s ! Loctite , Teflon Tape Etc . Ive seen there uses and how there used change over the year,s ? What I do ! Loctite << 3 Point system at top of threads ! Teflon tape << wrapp top half of threads on a taper ! So with spark pluggs and anti seize << Might be truth is some where in the Middle ! As Too Runnin Champion,s in Bugg Motors or your Dirt Bike ? Can tell ya this is a Big No! No ! for certain ! << That,s experience talkin ! As Too Chaseing threads << Only when neccessary ! <, definately not something ya wanna do every time as a rule ! If Plugg wont turn in by hand fairly easy ? < Might wanna chase it with lil carb cleaner sprayed on chaser tool ! my .02 cents worth ! Sean
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
So how do you get a torque wrench into position inside the Type 1 engine compartment?
It's hard enough getting a stubby ratchet with a 5 degree throw in there, let alone a foot long torque wrench.
Let's be honest here, don't most of us just tighten the plug down until it contacts the compression washer, and then just a little bit more?
I can see using a torque wrench if you have the engine out of the car, but in the car it's not possible.
SURVEY:
Who uses a torque wrench while installing spark plugs with the engine in the car?
'66 VW Beetle w/sunroof
http://tinyurl.com/qhw59
"Where am I going ... and why am I in this handbasket?"
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
FWIW, I use my 30+ year old Craftsman click-stop wrench set at 20 ft-lb. (about an 18 inch handle) at every plug change (plus antiseize)....BUT! I am doing this on a 40 horse engine with plenty of side room in the engine bay. I chase the threads about every other time and only R&R plugs on a dead cold engine. Of course if an aluminum head's plug holes have been helicoiled or time-serted, another whole discussion is needed.
Clancy
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
As we've covered before on this topic, anti-seize seems more important on engines with aluminum heads if the plugs go a loooong time between changes. On Wasserboxers I used Bosch Platinum (I know - many say this is a bad combination, but worked great for me.) and seldom touched plugs for 50K. The Mexibeetles can easily get 25K on the stock NGK plugs before the plug gap grows too much. These engines also keep the mixture more ideal than older carbs, so carbon buildup around the threads isn't a problem, unless the plug is too loose allowing a bit of blowby up the threads. (A good reason to torque properly.)
I've used antiseize on plugs for 40 years and never noticed it causing a problem, and I do think you get more consistent "tightness" with the lubrication. Just apply it sparingly.
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
I though the lack of heat transfer with anti-seize was BS too. Anyways if the treads get all messed up, you will for sure have poor heat transfer to the plugs.
Deron.
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
A few weeks ago on "Two Guys Garage", (which has three guys) Sam Memollo put about one small drop of anti-seize compound on the lead thread and let it coat as the plug threaded in. I'm no expert but this is the way I do it. Anti-seize every time but not very much. I don't want a frozen plug. I use a ratchet, but not a torque wrench. Always Bosch. How do you keep stuff from getting pushed into the combustion chamber when chasing threads?
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
You can use plugs with cut threads all you want, but I would never let them near one of my heads, I just have too much invested in them to go against simple logic. Same goes for thread chasers. If the plug turns in freely by hand, don't mess with the threads. You'll either remove or move the material, either is bad if done regularly when it's not even needed. I'm glad to see this all works well for you Scott, but that is not advice you want to be giving to anyone.
Too many people go crazy with anti-seize. A very small dab on your finger, wiped across the threads is all it takes. It will distribute itself around the circumference as you turn the plug in. --Ryan
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
I always use anti-seize on any aluminum head. The point of a-s is to prevent galling between dissimilar metals. I agree with rcb78 that sparing use of a-s is best. Never had a problem with striped/siezed threads/plugs. I also don't torque them in. Just tight & bump the ratchet. I too think chasing threads with the head on is plain dangerious. I've been wrenchin VW's since 1967. My '74 type 2 likes Bosch Platinums. I won't use them on a type 1. I like Bosch plugs on aircooled VW engines. Over the years I have found that whatever brand the original manufacturer used is probably the best plug to use in any given engine. I use Champions in lawn mowers and nothing else. IMHO Splitfires and multiple electrodes are snake oil. Your milage may vary.
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
For what it's worth, the best plug I've tried to date is NGK. There's a good reason why Porsche dropped Bosch and switched to them. --Ryan
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
I'm sure NGK says alot of things, I'm other manufacturers say alot of thing. I just like their plugs, I don't like everything they say. As far as what the Bentley manual says, I seriously doubt that's a real recommendation, more like a cross reference. Notice that Bosch and Beru plugs both use rolled threads, I'm willing to bet that Champion was listed simply because they are/were a common American name that people were more familiar with.
Like I said, use what makes you happy, but there are better choices to be made. --Ryan
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
Ryan,
I don't know how much more real of a recommendation you can get than listing a plug in an official VW service manual with a VW part number on the manual. I doubt that VW had major any concerns over the cut threads of the Champion spark plugs, otherwise they wouldn't have listed the plug. Can you imagine the liability concerns if cut thread spark plugs were causing huge numbers of spark plug holes threads to be stripped out?
How many Champion spark plugs have you actually seen that galled the spark plug hole threads, where anti-seize compound was used, and the spark plugs were torqued properly on a cold engine?
Scott Novak
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
You haven't turned to many screws in your life have you? There is a very real difference between cut and rolled threads. What I've witnessed in other applications is enough to see it's a bad idea. Why would I wish to risk my heads when I've seen evidence to the contrary? --Ryan
Re: Spark Plug Torque, Anti-Seize, Thread Chasing, Rolled Vs Cut Threads
Oh, and about the actual factory recommendation. Bentley does not work for VW, the company simply writes service manuals (for many auto makers) that recieve the title of "authorized". If you are curious what plug VW themselves recommend, maybe you should consider that they shipped with Bosch. --Ryan