Plantman Strikes A Nerve With Me

I hope no one thinks I am trying to defend any mechanic or repair shop, but I think we should all realize a few things when it comes to having a vintage VW repaired.

Our VWs are now 35+ years old.  Most mechanics today are not even that old.  They have no experience with VWs.  It would be really rare to find a repair shop even having a manual for working on VWs.  Not having manuals, the average mechanic would simply see the VW as a piece of machinery and will simply look for broken or loose things and try to repair or replace them with something that looks to be right. 

Shops today charge $60 to $80 per hour.

Some Specifics -
Cars today don't have ignition points.  A mechanic with 100% experience on today's electronic ignitions simply can't adequately handle the VW ignition problems.

A mechanic would think that forcing the nut off the rear drums is just the result of the nut being stuck or rusted on.  Replacing it finger tight with a cotter pin retainer would seem to be the appropriate method of replacing it, much like the front drums.

Caburetor?  What's a carburetor?  If it's not electronic fuel injection it's not repairable.

Kingpins?  What the heck are they?  If I can get the old ones out with a hammer then the new ones should go in the same way.

There is very little in our vintage VWs that is the same as modern cars.  Just because a mechanic is trained to work on today's cars does not in any way mean that he can work on a Beetle.

Well, I'm just rambling here.  But what I'm trying to point out is that the majority of mechanics are honest and try to the best of their ability to satisfy their customers.  The problem is that their ability does not extend to vintage cars.

Shop around before you need a shop.  Ask various shops about their experience with VWs.  Keep going until you find one you're satisfied with.  Ask other VW owners in your area where they take their cars for service.  Get a VW repair manual yourself and, if the work is beyond your abilities, then lend the book to the mechanic while he works on your car.

Keep away from large chains like Firestore, Pep Boys, Sears, NTB, etc.  The kids working there can not help you.  Finding an old shop in a run down gas station is more likely to have someone with the right experience.  Also, stay away from VW dealers unless they've been in business for at least 45 years and have an old time mechanic on staff who will be assigned to your car.

Go to car shows of old cars, not just VWs.  Ask these people who might be able to work on old cars.  A vintage VW is a lot closer to a 1954 ford than to a 2003 Dodge.  Someone able to work on the former should be able to handle a VW.

Get a working knowledge of the ins and outs of your car.  If a mechanic tells you something you don't trust then ask him to explain and show you the evidence.  Don't ever approve work before you know what is going to be done, why it needs to be done and how much it will cost. 

I've had many friends and acquaintences who were/are mechanics.  Some of them could do relaible work on VWs, some of them couldn't even find the engine on the first try.  Right now there are only three local shops I would even consider taking my car to.  One mechanic build and raced his own VWs and Formula Vs in the past.  Another Specializes in VW engines but does some mechanical work.  The third has been working on cars for 40 years now.  Look around, you'll find someone competent and honest.

I won't blame todays mechanics too much because most are probably decent at what they do know, they just don't know old VWs  On that note I'll share with you what happened the ONE time I took the 66 to a garage for repair.  I bought a "good" used 1600DP from a friend to put in my car.  It had a few minor problems but nothing a wrench or two couldn't fix so I took it down and detailed it back up.  There were only two things left to fix.  It had a stripped stud on the oil sump plate and the two exhaust studs on the left head were missing. I tried fitting them with a standard stud but evidently someone had put oversize ones in there. (and as it turned out they were stripped also)  I had entertained the idea of heli-coils and time-serts but one day I had a thought.  There is a shop just 10 mins from my house that works on nothing but foriegn cars and Porsche is a specialty of theirs, there are several old 912s and even a couple of 356Bs in thier yard there.  Now really, any shop could probably handle re-tapping a stud hole and inserting an oversized stud but really what I was looking for was someone who would care for my car and since apparently they know thier way around these motors, I was confident.  I could not have been more wrong!!!   I stopped there on a Thursday and set up an appointment for the following Monday.  I was off that entire week so it should work out that I'd have her back by tuesday and have the rest of the week to really get her on the road for summer, not to mention there was a car show attached to the big apple festival we have here that Saturday and she was entered in that.  Was told on Monday morning that they wouldn't be able to get to it until the next day. No big deal, these things happen.  Dropped it off on Tuesday a.m. and was told to come back around 4:30, it would be done.  Came back at 5 to find my car still up on jack stands (didn't use a lift even though they have one) draining of oil, exhaust never having been touched.

"Got a little behind today, will have it by lunch tomorrow, for sure"

Understand that since September of 97 when I got the shell back from the paing shop, this car has NEVER and I mean NEVER been out of my care with the one exception of about 4 hours when I had the headliner installed by a friend of mine.  It has never spent the night in any facility that I didn't lock up on my own!  But what can I do?  Came back on Wednesday around 3 and the car was still not back together and I was informed that:

"Well, I finally have all the studs I need (ahem, there were 3!) but I won't get it today but definately tomorrow."

At this point I was ready to pack up my car and take it with me but I figured if it is the same story tomorrow then I would.  At least they did keep it inside everynight.  Came back Thursday at 4 and you guessed it, car is still up on jack stands and the exhaust is not on, but the studs were in. OK, progress.  The guy working on my car comes over and informs me that all he has to do is put the muffler back on and tighten her up, that he already filled the sump with oil so it won't be but a few minutes longer.  Two and a half days longer than expected, what's a few more minutes.  Well a little later, as I'm sittting there waiting outside the bay, I notice he is struggling behind my car trying to pry something.  I walk over and he is having problems with the preheat tubes not quite matching up with the exhaust.  Now I admit it was a Brazilian muffler but I have put on bunches of these (including that very one on that very motor while it was in the car) and while they are not the best fit, I have never had to struggle like he was.  Out of frustration I started looking over what he had done and noticed he had removed one of the exchangers from the muffler.  He said he thought he could put it back on once the muffler was in place but he couldn't get so he just left it off.  Biting my tongue now.  I also noticed that he had tightened up every bolt so far on the exhaust and I suggested to him to just loosen them until he (by this time I'm going to help) got everything lined up.  He agreed. Well figuring we were in the home stretch, I walked across the street to get a bottle of water and when I came back (5 mins?)  He has a torch and is heating the preheat tube on the right side to try to bend it.  He just crossed my line.  Without yelling, I asked him to please not use a torch on my fresh engine.  He asks how else can it be done.  I picked up HIS tools and loosened the muffler, took the big screw driver HE was using to try to pry with and lined up the holes and then proceded to insert tighten all the bolts. One muffler installed.  We let the car down and just before I shut the hood, I don't know why, but I checked the oil.  Whooaaahh!   Oil was all the way up the dipstick.  I asked how much he put in and he answered:  "Five and a half quarts..."  OK, back on the jack and under the car to drain out some oil.  After it was all said and done, he charged me $30 for parts and 5 hours labor, just over $300. That's not too awful if it wasn't for my car being up there all week including me having to work on it myself. Literally without a word, I wrote him a check, pushed my car out of the bay and hooked it up to my truck and left, no "thank you", "have a nice day," or anything.  I was so PO-ed, I didn't even argues the bill, and I probably should have because the story doesn't end there.  After I got the car home (I towed it, I did not start it) I was looking over the work and noticed that my cooling tin and engine seal had been scorched from the torch and I ended up draining out about a quart and a half of oil just to bring the level close to the line.  That prompted me to go ahead and change it out.  I pulled the valve covers off and on the oil had run down the pushrod tubes and collected enough to start to leak out of the valve covers and leave stains on my floor.  Also, I found that instead of an oil change kit, he used RTV on the sump plate.  The whole job was just a mess.  Now I'm not saying my car is a museum piece, but it is a showcar and it looks like it. In other words, it's obvious that I would want the job done right.  I took it there because it seemed like they would treat the car like I would.  As far as the car itself, I found nothing out of sorts but I never would have expected that kind of work from them.  I learned two lessons that week: 
#1) Unless you know 'em, you don't know 'em. 
#2) From now on NOBODY works on my Beetle but me or at the very least, I am there.

Now even after that I won't "bad-mouth" them because even though I had never used them, they have been in business for a number of years so they must do something right.  If every job was done as poorly as what they did for me, they just couldn't stay in business long.  I will say this with every convicition I have in me, I would not recommend them to my worst enemy, but that's just my experience with them.

Last edited by 66vwowner (2005-11-18 15:22:45)

There were a couple of little marks in the engine bay around the seal mostly but not the kind of thing you could get too upset over.  Believe me, I checked every square inch!  Never been so nervous in my life.

Pic (not a great one but you get the idea)

Last edited by 66vwowner (2005-11-18 15:25:52)

I used to work at several GM dealerships before leaving the trade twenty years ago. I still do most all my own work, except for my newer car wich is all electronic and I don't have a clue how they work.  Back then, most of the mechanics that worked in dealers were the best you could hope for. They sent us to training all the time. The dealers would be the highest price per hour, but I felt the customer still got the best service. Sure, there were those guys that were only interest in making a buck, but they were good mechanics. Now when I go to the dealer to get my blazer worked on, they try to cha ching me for all they can get. I've had to take it back several times for the same problem, and every time there is grease on the steering wheel and door handles. Man, you just don't get good service like you used to any where these days. Just the same way with my motorcycle, It wont start and I dont have the skill to figure out what is wrong with it. The guys at the dealer are knuckelheads and I don't trust them to work on it. But the only other bike shops around here are either harley or custom. What do I do? I'll have to figure that one out latter. Well back to the VW. I never worked on a WV before in my life but I knew parts were cheap and they got 30 MPG so I got my baby, a 69 Ghia Convertable. I marveled at how things worked on it, so simple but so complex. I needed help. Someone on this forum put me on to the bug me videos. After getting all that were available, I watched them over and over until I felt I had a very good understanding of how things worked. Now I feel like I can fix anything on those old VW's. Moral of the story, Do the work yourself, It's cheaper and you'll know its done right. Join a VW club. They will usually have the expensive tools to borrow so you don't have to buy them. They are a valuable resourse for information (just like this forum) but local, so they can give you hands on experience. Eddie