Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
Very informative.
Patrick
Owner of a 1970 Beetle. Minus all the rust and most of my money.
Owner of a 1970 Beetle. Minus all the rust and most of my money.
Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
I've used synthetic in aircooled for many years, and have found it superior in Texas conditions. I believe the CHT runs cooler, but can't really quantify it due to all the variables that change day to day. I use a VDO CHT gauge, which doesn't have cold junction compensation, so the reading varies somewhat with the ambient air temperature - adding a variable to the mix. CHT varies so much and so quickly with load (watch it rise and fall going uphill and downhill) that it doesn't seem to be closely related to oil temperature, which varies more with engine rpms. (Oil temp is always highest with prolonged high rpm cruising, and hills and load don't seem to affect it much.)
Both my observations and engineering logic make me doubt some of Berg's observations. I believe he attributes more engine cooling to the oil than actually takes place. Jake Raby dynos every type 4 engine he builds and watches both CHT and oil temp using precise gauging, and he notes the same correlation: CHT varies with load; while oil temp varies with engine speed. This says that oil generates most of the oil temp from "churning" friction, while the CHT comes from the combustion temperatures.
While the details can make interesting study, at my age I'm just happy with the results I get with the sythetic. I've used most synthetics in various engines over the years (starting mid-70s), and now stay with Amsoil 5W40 year around in Texas conditions. For transmissions I find RedLine shifts a bit better - I still have one Mexi with Amsoil and one with Redline, so I got a good comparison.
Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
Ahh the problem with synthetic oil,s is that there too good ! There viscosity is so much better than petroleum based oil , that on air cooled buggies with newly rebuilt motor,s the ring,s will not seat . The trick is too run a petroleum base oil until motor is broke in, ring,s seated . Then switch over too the Syn,s ! Wich bring,s us too where is a motor broke in discussion at 10 k or 20 k or 50k miles ? So at what mileage do we consider a motor too be runnin strongest ? <, Lott,s of debate on it here ! Appreciate the oil info tho . But Oil Is Oil ? My opinion Switch out around 10 Too 20 K miles too the Syn,s ! But that,s just my opinion . Throw Total seal Ring,s Intoo the Pott , And Stir the debate even More ! Add Oil recovery system With Total Seal ? Hell I can go on for 3 Hour,s just on the Type of recovery System,s used ! Add Type of driving > Short Trip,s < or 50 Mile blast too work one way Etc. But No doubt about it Syn,s are the way too go . After 10 k miles you drain oil <, look,s as good as the day you poured it in . Provided ring,s , valves , etc are sealing . My .02 cent,s worth . Sean
Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
I agree with Sean that you should break in w/Dino oil then switch later on to help the rings etc break in.
Your info is interesting but we aren't exactly comparing apples to apples using w 5w30 VS SAE 30 are we ??
-Darby
Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
If you really want to stir the pot, what Scott is using is a true synthetic, an ester base. What are the rest of you using that claim to be using synth? He's another little tidbit. Webcam, big name, smart people. Why do they void their warranty if you use Synth (real synth)? I'm currently using Kendall, a mineral oil. Based on the different synths and group 3's I've tried, it performs with the best of them, but is still a 'normal' type oil. It's one of the very few 'virgin' (non-refined) oils available, as the cost reflects. As for what Berg wrote about synths, umm alot of things have changed in the last 10+ years, I'll be oil composition is one of them. --Ryan
Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
This is Redline's response to the question of engine and transmission break-in before switching to synthetic:
"I would recommend allowing the rings to seat before installing the
Red Line Oils in the engine. This will typically happen easily by
1000 miles, if you wait closer to 2000 miles then most of the high
initial wear will have occurred and the rings will certainly be
seated.
"In the S Series manual transaxle, I would recommend the Red Line
D4ATF. You can change over at any time, I would wait at least 2 or
3000 miles for the high initial wear to occur. Though this isn't
critical unlike the ring seat in the engine."
Gene Berg recommended 20 weight NON-Detergent oil for break in.
After replacing my pistions and cylinders last winter, I used 10 weight non-detergent oil for the first hour, then changed the oil, used 10 weight non-detergent for the next 500 miles, then switched to 20 weight non-detergent oil for the next 1,000 miles.
Then used straight 30 weight detergent oil until I switched to synthetic in the fall.
Scott Novak
Re: Redline Synthetic Vs Valvoline Petroleum Temperature Test
DrDarby
SAE 30 is specified to be 9.3 cSt or greater, and less than 12.5 cSt @ 100 degrees C, 212 degrees F.
Redline 5W30 is rated at 10.6 cSt @ 100 degrees C, 212 degrees F
The viscosity of Redline 5W30 is within the specifications of SAE 30 at engine operating temperature so it is a valid test.
At operating temperatures, straight weight petroleum oils are always superior to multi-viscosity petroleum oils. A 10W30 starts with an SAE 10 weight oil, and then viscosity improvers are added to increase the viscosity at 100 degrees C. The molecules of the viscosity improvers will line up under high sheer loads, such as the main bearings, and the viscosity will drop substantially. A 10W30 under high sheer load may only perform as well as the straight SAE 10 weight oil that it was based on.
The next question to be asked is would an SAE 30 run hotter or cooler than an SAE 40?
And likewise would Redline 5W30 run hotter or cooler than Redline 10W40?
Scott Novak