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Ok it dose'nt have a clutch pedal, one less gear and a torque converter. Now do I get it?
Give the man a cigar!
I've got to strongly disagree. First of all, the Beetle was designed with military use in mind. Can you say Kubelwagen? It was one of the first vehicles with four wheel independent suspension. It uses a lightweight aircraft engine with a very low center of gravity, which helps handling. When it was designed in the 30's, it actually outperformed many vehicles of the day.
Scott,
The car was designed and built by Ferdnand Porsche as a "People's Car" under the direction and with the approval of A. Hitler. It wasn't until several years later, when military vehicles were needed, that there were modifications made to adapt the basic sedan for military uses. And yes, I can say Kubelwagen. What does that have to do with a Beetle sedan? It was a completely different vehicle having nothing to do with this discussion.
Although VW engines, with about $12,000-$15,000 in modifications can and have been used as lightwieght aircraft engines, the original engine was not EVER considered to be an aircraft engine (25 HP - you've got to be kidding).
Don't for a second think that the VW had anything but average performance at any time during its lifetime of manufacture, expecially in the 30s and 40s. If you can point me to data that says otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing it.
Acceleration can be very important when driving in Metro areas. A small engine with limited horsepower needs all the help that 4 gears can give it.
Until you've driven an autostick car, you shouldn't make unproven statements like this. The torque converter in the autostick provides the extra power that extra gears in the transmission might otherwise provide. I can't think of any particular driving situation where an autostick would be at a disadvantage.
The three gears in an autostick are the same as 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the four speed transmissions. The "lack" of 1st gear is well made up for by the torque converter with 2nd gear.
The extra complexity of the autostick adds to the number of parts that must be maintained and can fail. That reduces reliability.
non sequetor. The 1977 VW has more parts than the 1947 VW; does that mean the 1947 is more reliable than the 1977?
With no clutch, there are all those associated parts that don't need maintenance ar replacement. Any machine, used as designed and properly maintianed will perform reliably.
The Beetle is one of the most modifiable platforms ever built. Why not customize it to your taste? The Beetle is so overbuilt in many respects that it's easy to get more performance out of it.
True, it is customizable and there is no reason not to customize it to your own personal taste. Does that mean a Beetle with an autostick is worthless as a modifiable car?
There is no reason you have to drive your Beetle like Aunt Tilly.
That may be so, but if you want to drive an autostick hard, you can do so. Remember, in a flat-out through-the-gears run, there's one less shift to make with an autostick.
I'd urge you to find and drive an autostick before you let your assumptions overpower reality.
And By George, I think 71_superman has got it!
What, exactly, is it that 71_superman has? And who is George?
The requirements for the "People's Car" were set forth by Hitler. Air cooling was one of them. No radiators to boil over in desert warfare, and no water to freeze in Russian winters. Hitler had war on his mind. Hitler was anything but altrusitic. There was a good reason that the Beetle was so easily converted into a military vehicle.
The Beetle's lightweight magnesium engine design is basically an aircraft engine. Granted it was scaled down in size for the Beetle.
VW used a variety of different gears in the Beetle Manual transaxle. The Autostick had nowhere near the gearing options that you have with a manual transaxle, and then of course there are even more gears available aftermarket. Another option for the Beetle for racers and offroaders is using a Bus manual transaxle. For those with some bucks, there is the Gene Berg 5-speed modification for the manual transaxle.
Torque converters ABSORB power and dissapate it in the form of heat! They don't generate power and they don't add any. Optimum gearing can improve power transfer. Torque converters are a power LOSS! A manual transaxle doesn't have this extra stage and does not have this power loss.
With equivilent quality control proceedures in place, a vehicle with more parts will have more failures. Period. It's a statistical fact. One of the reasons I drive a Beetle is because of the simplicity. There is a lot that can go wrong with a 2005 car that isn't even present in my 1972 Beetle.
And if you want to talk about long term reliability, it's hard to beat an oil filter for reducing engine wear. Try installing a full flow oiling system on an autostick. Maybe it can be done, but nobody offers a kit to do it. At least 4 companies sell oil pump covers to be used with full flow oil filters, and 3 of them offer covers with a pressure relief valve.
Personally I don't like the Stock VW Shifters. Even in good condition they are sloppy. And pushing down to find reverse is a pain. My Hurst trigger shifter is nice and solid, and reverse is easy. Try finding ANY aftermarket shifter for an Autostick. With a manual, you can beef up your transaxle to handle higher horsespower engines. There is also the matter of finding a pressure plate that can handle the loads of a high horsepower engine. Lightened flywheels are often used for better acceleration. Not an option with an autostick. Autosticks just won't speedshift.
While the Beetle was not designed to be a high performance vehicle, it was ahead of it's time in many respects. I think it outperformed many others for endurance. Few other cars had the traction advantages of the Beetle in the mid 30's. Most other cars were using solid axles when the Beetle had 4 wheel independent suspention.
There can be overheating problems with the ATF fluid, especially of you tow with your Beetle like I do. Then there is the ATF fluid that can leak and destroy your clutchplate.
An autostick sucks if you want to try to rock yourself unstuck in the snow. With a manual, you can just ride the clutch and rock yourself right out. I hate driving any kind of automatic transmission on snow or ice. You don't have the control that you do with a manual, especially when motor braking. Personally I think automatic transmissions should be outlawed.
And example of a problem that can occur with an automatic or autostick that can't happen with a manual. A mother left her 2 year old alone in a running car while looking at Christmas trees. The child apparently played with the gearshift lever, put it into drive. The car hit another car, turned it 90 degrees. The car continued across the parking lot, crossed a busy 4 lane street, went through another parking lot, then up over a berm, across another street, up my driveway, plowed into the back of a van, pushed the van THROUGH the garage door, and almost hit the VW Rabbit that I was UNDER at the time!!!!
Assuming that you could even shift a manual into gear without using the clutch while it was running, the engine would in all probability kill. End of problem. Also, people with manual transmissions put the parking brake on if they leave the engine running. Again, the engine would just kill, end of problem. People with Automatics often have a bad habit of not using their parking brakes.
Personally, If I had a Beetle with an autostick, and it had the clutch cable tube in place as many autostick Beetles do, I'd rip out the autostick and install a manual.
An interesting note. The engine I'm driving now, was for an autostick. I converted it with a flywheel and high volume blueprinted oil pump and pressure relief full flow oil pump cover. I use Redline 5W30 Polyol ester synthetic. I change the oil and filter once a year, and my oil stays really clean! I've still got that pesky autostick transaxle in my garage that I need to get rid of.
Scott Novak
OK Scott, I won't try to change your mind, and you won't change mine.
Maybe, however, you could explain one thing to me that will help me see your point of view.
I may be making unfounded assumptions here but, what is it that you get out of driving a VW to its rev limits and shifting as fast and hard as you can? What do you see as being less than desirable with "driving like Aunt Tilly?"
And, please, try to leave "reliability" out of your answer. I'm just interested in the psychological reasons.
David H,
I don't always rev my engine to it's limits and shift as fast as I can. But there are times that I need to. Those pesky freeway ramp meters require you to get up to speed and merge into traffic from a standing start. Even worse, when you get behind "Aunt Tilly" and she stops at the end of the accelleration ramp!!!! Getting up to speed and merging without an acceleration lane is REALLY a challenge. Then there are times that I just like to drive fast. And before you ask, No, I'm not on a first name basis with the traffic court judge and I do get good driver rates on my car insurance.
A question for you David. Are you driving a Beetle with an autostick without a full flow oil filter? If so, how could you do that to an engine?
Scott Novak
I drive a 100% restored to original, 1300cc, 1966 sunroof sedan. I drove a 1968 autostick for a while in the 70s but my '66 is a regular 4-speed.
I drive it mostly like a little old lady, and have never felt a lack of power. It runs smooth as glass from 15 Mph to 85 MPH in 4th gear. The only time I need 1st or 2nd is when I'm slower than 20 MPH. The few times I've had it on the interstate I never felt concerned about running it out on the acceleration ramp - just floor it in 3rd and hit 4th at the end of the ramp.
David H,
Is the 66 your daily driver, or your only on Sunday car?
And by original, do you mean you don't have an oil filter?
My 72 sedan is my daily driver and it sees a lot of freeway driving around town at speeds of up to 85 MPH. Whenever rush hour traffic isn't clogging up the roads, people around here drive a lot faster than the posted limits.
If you really want a challenge, try driving in Chicago on that road by Lake Michigan. I forget the name, but I'm sure somebody will know what I'm talking about.
Scott Novak
Scott i have been checkking this site for quite some time but tonite i read that you have an auto stick that you need to get out of your garage,so i just became a member so i could help you get rid of it. I have a Rupp trike with a 1600 cc dual
port and a four speed transmision. While i love the four speed i have had four operations on my left elbow and it has become very painfull shifting gears so i
need to convert to a automatic. I have a fully automatic from a type 4 Vw 411
but it would require to much modification to make it fit my trike so please let me
know how much you would take for autostick that you need to get rid of.
Thanks--- Uncle Pete
I have an auto stick on a beetle that I wish to rebuild, but I do not know what I should do. Should I scrap it and convert it to a standard, how hard and how much would that be? Where do you go to find parts for an auto stick.
Hiya Duke,
Contrary to what you might hear, parts (we're talking used parts) are not all that difficult to locate. Interstate Used Parts (crammed full of AutoStick parts) and Way-Out Salvage are good places to online shop. I have been very successful in browsing local boneyards. Last summer I could have bought an entire AutoStick system for $125 at a local.
On the other hand, new parts for an AutoStick can be difficult to locate. But they are still findable. CIP1 has a number of AutoStick related parts including clutch discs. The torque converter is a relatively easy rebuild for any converter rebuild company.
The most difficult to locate parts fall into two categories - both VERY important. Some of the parts inside the bellhousing (clutch related parts) can be close to impossible to locate. For example, the throwout bearing is, for all practical purposes, unobtainable. Seals are the other hard-to-find item. Some seals are relatively easy to locate, some close to impossible.
Conversion of an AutoStick to a manual is a do-able sort of project IF you either have a pan with a clutch tube already in place OR you have considerable welding skills and the equipment. Otherwise you will need deep pockets. Parts to make the conversion to a manual will run about $400 to $500 and double that (at a minimum) if you have to hire a welder. Good part is that you could sell the AutoStick parts and recoup at least part of the conversion cost.
Mike
1970 AS Bug
Personally I'd convert to a manual if the clutch tube exists in your car.
Also remember that you have to replace the driveplate with a flywheel, and you also need to replace the two section oil pump with a standard oil pump. Then plug the vacuum port for autostick.
I'm using a Converted Autostick engine in my Beetle with a manual transaxle.
Scott Novak
Wow David, nice looking ride.
Hey folks I'm neutral on this subject as I've never driven an autostick.
I was just wondering if you could push start one?
Would you please list the web sites for the two places you mention that has a good supply of auto stick parts? Here in Fl. parts are hard to find and expensive.
It seems that time i find a auto stick it has a bunch of parts are missing.
A flex plate from a junk yard goes for $100.00
If you run into another complete auto stick transmission for a $125.00 please
let me know.
Thanks Uncle Pete
stevenshepard431
Thanks for the compliment and Yes, you can push start an autostick but it takes about 30 MPH to do it, not 3 MPH like a stick.
I'd never even thought about the push starting aspect of an autostick.
I'll just add this to my list of reasons why I don't drive an autostick.
Scott Novak
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