Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
check the brake hoses After years they collapse in on themselves not allowing the shoes to return away from the drums
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
Thanks, oldfriend...I replaced all the rubber hoses about 18 months ago due to the exact symptoms you described...clogged arteries not allowing the return springs to do their job. The dragging symptoms only occur now while doing the brake adjusment procedure. One thing that I haven't replaced in a bunch of years is the front drums...could that cause these symptoms? The drums appear in good shape and during shoe replacement I've always scuffed off the normal glaze with emery paper ....Hmmmnn?
It seems like somthing is in correct position when the wheels are of the ground but not when the tires are under load with the car in the ground....Like I said: "hmmmnn?"
Clancy
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
Yippers Here Some thin Ive seen few times on Drumm,s ? Are the Drumm,s Painted ?? If they are painted ? < And Flatt black wasnt used ? Then they have been sealed with a sealing type paint ? <, This will cause excessive heat on the Drumm,s and shoe,s << will actually cause shoe padd, particule,s too adhere too the drumm,s ? << All it takes is commin down a mountain lil fast too heat um up ? I Noticed this on car in particular that altho I Couldnt see anything really wrong with the drumm,s ? If you take a knife and scrape the inside of the drumm << All the dust is like glued almost wanna say melted too the drumm ? Sand the drumm brakin surface << see if this is what,s happennin ? << Sound,s crazy But look see ifn im right here ? Hard too see with naked eye once the brake padd adheres too the drum << Look,s almost like part of the drumm, << Scrape with a knife tho see ifn dont scrape bunch of dust out of um ? Now I See that you used emery cloth ? Was there a Lott Of Dust Doe,s this temporarily fix the problem ? If So Then stripp the drumm,s down too bare metal ? Then use carb spray and scotch brite too clean the pores out << Lott,s of carb spray here ? Then Re- coat with non sealing flat black primer ?<< Light coat, here ? Now Drumm,s can breathe ? When i Did My car ? I had wire brushed and scraped whole pann for day,s ? Finally one mornin I Decided that,s it ! good enough ? grabbed the spray gun went too town on her << Painted her up good ? Sat down smoke a ciggarette have a cold drink ? Was Lookin at the great job I Had Done ? Saw how shinny black the drumm,s were ???? All I Could think was what in the hell did I Do that for ? LMAO Had too remove drumm,s and stripp um too bare metal ? LMAO Paint fume,s will make you stupid ? Yeah I Realize every one gonna say Im full of it ? paintin drumm,s doesnt matter ? < wont make that much of a difference ? Im Tellin ya that it does ! If your drumm,s are painted with sealing paint ? << Stripp them too bare metal !Lightly Coat Flat black primer ! Sean
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
Sean: Nope, the drums are in the raw. During the re-shoeing process, I simply hit the inside working surfaces of the drum to break the glaze, similar to wht I do with a new clutch disk and breaking the glaze on the flywheel...not many particles here at all. Like I said, this is a static problem: front wheels off the ground spin freely...wheels on the ground and dragging is noticed. Any other theories? Anyone? anyone? clancy
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
You're open to ideas, so here's the only one I can come up with right now:
How old are the spindles? Even if properly greased/maintained, spindles over that many miles have certainly attained some wear. This means you will have unacceptable tolerance between the innerds of the bearings and the spindle, perhaps not out of round but rather with a worn or incorrect "profile." Maybe try and mic the spindles and compare with tolerance readings in bentley? or find a buddy who will let you and blue a profile on paper of known good spindle and compare to yours.
Last edited by jimchere (2005-05-31 21:15:49)
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
An odd problem. Does this happen as soon as the car is lowered after adjustment? That is, when you adjust them and lower the car, can the car be pushed freely before you apply the brakes, or does the problem only occur after the brakes have been applied? When you see that the brkes are dragging, if you stop the car and jack it up, are the brakes still dragging with the wheel in the air?
The brakes are either applying themselves or not releasing properly after being applied.
How could they apply themselves? There is a leading and a trailing show on each wheel. The design is such that when the brakes are applied, the leading shoe is forced into, and drawn into, the drum to produce the stopping action. It is unlikely, but possible that the shoe is close enough to the drum to be drawn into it and applying braking pressure.
It is far more likely that the brakes aren't releasing properly. This can be casused by weak return springs (the long springs that go between the two shoes) not pulling the shoes back, sticking wheel cylinders not allowing the shoes to fully return (or even the master cylinder doing the same thing), shoes not properly seated in the adjuster screws (the slot is slanted and should match the slant of the shoe at the contact point), improper shoes (too wide) dragging on the backing plate or (unlikely) warped backing plates.
I'm not positive about the action of the master cylinder. I'd have to look it up later to be sure, but I think that if the actuating rod from the pedal through the floor and into the back of the cylinder is not properly adjusted it could be applying pressure to the system, or not fully releasing pressure once applied.
Make sure you have the right shoes for your year, put in new wheel cylinders (they're cheap), get a hardware kit with new springs (also cheap), re-check your adjusters and make sure everything is seated right and free moving when you put it back together.
David H
'66 VW Beetle w/sunroof
http://tinyurl.com/qhw59
"Where am I going ... and why am I in this handbasket?"
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
Bearings are always better a touch on the loose side than too tight, however I think if you have the wheels spinning freely off the ground (with the brakes backed off) I doubt that is your problem. I would suspect that maybe your interpretation of just dragging maybe a little too tight, especially since you say they work fine if you back them off further. Best to get a second opinion. I'm sure you'll fix it
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
How are the wheel cylinders ? Before our cars got old enough for the brake hoses to give us problems, the wheel cylinders were the culprit coming out with brake pressure but not releasing due to corrosion internally. Do you flush (100% of the) brake fluid every two years.
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
lol...disks would be cool...I think I understand your "thereoy" it makes sense to me? Sure why not?
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
i don't get why you feel the need to hit the brakes to "center" them a ton of times during the set up process... I did brake jobs and oil changes in a garage for a co op during high school and since then I've been doing brakes for people for cash for years now... go by the KISS principle... you're overcomplicating a simple process... did you add new hardware kits (the springs) and grease your contact points... you start off with the star adjuster loose, put the drum on, turn it up until they are close, but not rubbing by any means, then you drive it and on drum brakes the adjusters will set themselves properly after a couple drives including backing up and hitting the brakes to set them... good luck with your problem... all else fails get your drums turned or replaced... if it is a bearing issue, sorry about your luck
1975 Super Beetle project
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
, then you drive it and on drum brakes the adjusters will set themselves properly after a couple drives including backing up and hitting the brakes to set them...
Obviously you've never seen VW drum brakes. They don't have automatic adjusters like many American cars have. You have to manually turn the adjusters. Once they are set they don't get better.
The practise of pumping the brakes during the adjusting is good for centering the shoes.
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
^^ thank you for clearing that up with me... I was just basing it on my past experience... sorry...... I'm a noob to VW just not normal brakes sorry to all
Last edited by TR75supervw (2005-06-10 04:00:54)
1975 Super Beetle project
Re: Front Brakes Drag after "Proper" Adjustment???
Yeah I Been Down few day,s ? Threw my back out ? Just wonderin here after scannin thru all the post ? Ive Seen Over Adjusted pedal rod,s and master cylinders do this ? Also Where The Shoes ride on the backin plate << Sometimes these wear grooves that trapp the shoe in them ? Also Point out That Hittin the brake too center the shoe,s on adjustment << Is In My Opinion Good Practice ? And A Incomplete release on master cylinders will also cause this ? Master cylinders on Bugg,s Are Fennicky At Best <, Especially after a car has sett for long period,s of time ? In Fact Buggies are the only car,s I Know Of That Actually Break down sittin in the yard for 6 mos. ? Think if I hear >> Well It was runnin goood when I Parked it last year ? I Will Surely Die Of Shame due too fact I Drive a car that break,s down sittin in the front yard . LMAO Sean