• From: Bethel Park PA
  • Registered: 2004-06-27
  • Posts: 686

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

I think that Sean is on the right track focusing on the oil pump.  It seems likely that as the engine heats up, there is enough expansion of the pump components that oil begins leaking past the gears and looses pressure.  It might not be easy to do but I'd try a different oil pump, at least as a test.  Or a heavier weight oil, say straight 40 weight.

I can't understand 40 pounds pressure at cold idle.  Most VWs I've had any experience with would be hard pressed to get that high at full speed.

The only other thing I can think of that might cause a drop in pressure is somehow getting air in the oil system.  It may be a stupid question but do you have the correct level of oil in the engine?

David H
'66 VW Beetle w/sunroof
http://tinyurl.com/qhw59
"Where am I going ... and why am I in this handbasket?"
  • Registered: 2008-09-11
  • Posts: 60

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

I ordered a new oil pump yesterday. BUGPACK has one they manufacture - USA!! that utilizes a spring loaded bypass if the filter fails.
I was never comfortable with the fabricated gasket but every parts house I contacted said they couldnt get a factory one. (different configuration than the stock pump).
Several days ago I did see them listed in an Empi catalog.
I try to test one thing at a time, this'll be an easy one.
You think 40 lbs at cold idle is exceptionally high considering the motor only has an hour or so on it? I never used an oil pressure guage on a VW engine before.

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Yeah but Listen to me ?? LMAO Blankin Pump is a Big Blankin Deal !!
  Yeah the China and Taiwann work etc. But around 70+ K mile's V.W are in famous for Low Idle pressure !
  Hence the Lil Hour Glass Pressure releif valve invention ??
  Shadeck and a Cow Magnett !!
  And yes at one time or another Ive read just about every thing on Spinn on Filter's etc.
  Been better to Tapp the case for Full flow !!
  Im not quite sure How a Filter fail's ????
  Ive seen um Pop open when wrong one was used ?? Or Blow by got intoo bottom end etc.
  Pump's a Big Deal The Diameter of the Pump O.D. should be checked and the Pump should be Indexed !
  Guy's are even gettin away from usin the High volume Oil Pump's they say they cause Spike's that lead to oil leakage , and that there not Warranted for Proper Lubrication !
  You start gettin into goin around Corners >>> Twisty mountain Rd as example !! Oil sloshes from one side to the other next thing you know gettin an oil light flicker ??
  All the oil is in the Valve cover's and the Pick up Tube suffer's starvation ! <<< Typical V.W.
  Now understand some Pick up tube starvation is the result of the Oil Screen ! Frothy oil dont flow to fast thru the oil screen back to the tube !
  Spinn on Pump Help's ! Clever Idea ! But gotta tell ya there has been a Blank load of Clever Ideas to fix this problem !
  I like a Full flow Filter and a STP oil screen both on a Deep Sump !
  The STP oil screen is of a Bigger Mesh than a stock screen help's to return oil back to the pick up tube faster !
  But Bugg Pack spin on sound's cool !!
  Not to sure about the By pass Valve <<< Just more to Go wrong ??? I dont know ??? Havent seen one yett !!!
                                                                     Sean

  • Ryan
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Silicon Valley
  • Registered: 2004-04-24
  • Posts: 587

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

All this talk about the gasket, have you checked the end play of the gears or the mating surface of the pump and cover to see if they are flat?
The gasket is what sets the end play provided the pump and gears are properly setup with no end play.  Many people will actually run with out a gasket to tighten up the clearance.  FWIW, you want an endplay of less than .001".
As for the condition of the surfaces, it's pretty common for the pump cover to not be perfectly flat.
The condition your describing is from the pump losing it's prime and the clearances being off enough to make it difficult to re-prime with warm, thin oil.  --Ryan

  • Registered: 2008-09-11
  • Posts: 60

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Well, the new pump arrived today, I'll put i on this weekend and see what happens. It uses an o-ring instaed of a gasket and cover is drilled for gear shaft support on both sides. Relief valve is simply a ball and spring - same concept as the ones already on the engine.

Sean- what I ment by oil filter failure is that if the filter was to become clogged, too cold and restricted oil for some reason... the bypass valve would open due to high pressure and allow oil to pass unfiltered to the important parts.
Considered runnin the Shadeck pump but Aircooled (who sells them) warned of blown oil seals if further modifications are not made.

I could be wrong in my thinking but the "spin on" is a full flow too, ( same filter, just a different route to it) the only thing different from the external full flow that I can see is that possibly there is more restriction in the quik turn oil passages it uses. 
I understand the issue of oil starvation and advantage of a deep sump but keep in mind this motor's on a trike - they dont really do high speed cornering well!

By the way, what the hell is a Cow Magnett?

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,318

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

billainsly wrote:

By the way, what the hell is a Cow Magnett?

Uhh Ooo...YOU HAD TO ASK!  ; )

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • Registered: 2004-03-27
  • Posts: 3,622

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Cow magnet: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_P … wmags.html
or in the alternative: http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp … C-C10-5242

C.

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Hey Jethro get your Arse down Here and Explain To Billy what the Hell a Cow Magnet is !! LMAO
  Im told that it work's best if you just use Flat Black Primer on the Oil Plate !!
  Spin on Filter is Good ! Ford did a Lott of Testing etc. on the Spin on Filters !
  But to me ???
  Like Ryann's trying to tell you ! Better to have the right End Play against the Plate , as well as the O.D. of the Pump << Matter's most on Aluminum Houseing Pump's as well as Indexed !
  Also yes there refering to High Volume Shadeck's ! Most Builder's are gettin away from usin the High Volume Pump's due to there just Unwarranted and Cause the rear seal crank seal to Leak oil !
                    Sean

  • Registered: 2008-09-11
  • Posts: 60

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Oh!
I figured it was just another one of those west coast slang terms!
I have the magnetic plug.
I rember dragging dead cows out of the fields with grandma in Kansas as a kid because they had eaten bits of bailing wire, I guess they hadnt thought of a simple magnet back then.

Put the new Bugpack pump-spin on combo on this weekend but its cold and rainin all weekend here (2 miles of dirt road out to the hard top). Plus wife's trike is blockin the way out  (self tapping stud hasnt arrived yet)
Couldnt hot-run test it yet but put TWO mechanical guages on to be sure of accuracy and got 60 lbs at cold idle with new VALVOLINE 10-40.
Supposed to be warmer by the end of the week, then I can get it HOT to see results.

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

I dont think were in Kansas anymore ToTo !!! LMAO
Yeah Bug Pack product's are kind Synomonous with EMPI Some you use some you dont ??
  But here last coupla Year's It's been my observation that Bug Pack is actually improveing over the Old Standby Empi !
  Thing's like thicker exhaust flange's on there exhaust ? It's almost like they started usin there own product's ???
  Qaulity seem's to be up ???
  California Slang Terminology ??
  Is that like callin your Bro Comrade ??? LMAO
                                                           Sean

  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Registered: 2005-09-10
  • Posts: 2,318

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Sean's wrote:

Is that like callin your Bro Comrade ??? LMAO
                                                           Sean

Well maybe that's a slang term for "Bro" if you keep heading West across the Pacific...and stop in Russia...Comrade!!  ; )

1979 Super Beetle Convertible
  • Registered: 2008-09-11
  • Posts: 60

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Jeeze, I figured you was close enough to the land of fruits and nuts to not take offence!  Sorry!
Just havin fun folks from Calif, no need to...like... hurl rotten avacodos at me!!
Bugpack CLAIMS they actually make that oil pump in house.
Wouldnt it be nice if something DID improve in quality?!

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Hey coupla more year's of this Marxist Movement in America ??
  We will all be refering to each other as Comrade !! Bro Comrade is How the Surfers refer to each other on West Coast
!!
  Me Im just Miffed ??
  Use to get all Depressed about it ?? Use to wonder about where is all the Out Rage ??
  Now Im kinda excited about it ! What a wonderfull time to be alive in America !!
  Just think about it ! After No serious National Conflict's in my Generation to speak of !!
  I get to Witness the Biggest Scamm and Rip off in the History of Man Kind while Simultaneously Witnessing a Communist attempt to Over throw the Country ??
  Now that's Exciteing time to be alive ! My Grandmother God rest her Soul would be Jealous of Me !
  She lived thru the Depression, World War 2,  the Korean Conflict and had 3 Son's in the Nam ???
  She claimed Her Generation was the Bravest of them all !! Scaleing Cliff's while Dodgeing Bullet's and Hand Grenade's in Normandy etc.
  Sure hopeing She is wrong about that !!!
  More this Guy come's on T.V. to Re- assure me that there not Rippin us off the more convinced I am that we are absolutely being Ripped off !!
  War = Economic factor ! I hate sayin it cause I feel that saying it will Prophesize it !
  This Debt will be paid in Blood !!
  Had to be Said ! LMAO
                                     Sean

  • Registered: 2008-09-11
  • Posts: 60

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

New pump seemed to do tthe trick!. Temps got up to 60 one day this week so I warmed her up and ran it hard a little. Oil pressure never dropped below 40 lbs. I'll confirm when weather gets HOT but it looks good!
Gotta finish up the rest of the details and put her on the road soon.
I'll probably need some advice on tweakin the dual 35 solexes. Noticed they had a nasty gargle at shift changes ( not the low vacume stumble v-dubs are known for) runnin a SVDA with hoses.

  • Registered: 2007-03-27
  • Posts: 2,422

Re: Oil pressure DROP in hot motor

Dual 35 ???? Im not much on the old type 3 Carb's if that's what your refering too the dual 32 pict serie's ?? Kinda a waste of time ?
  I dont understand unless it's K- Dog's or Webber's ( Big Smile ) Then Im your Man !
  Edel Brock , Holley , Carter's ,Mikuni's , Do a lott of Computerized Carb's ??? Mid 80's coupla year's before Fuel Injection ???
  LMAO You would even cohmprhend the amount of totally useless knowledge I have on Computerized Carb's ! Hell I got 5 Big Book's 6 soft back book's on Mid 80's Computerized Carb's ! Im talkin College educated on Mid 80's Carb's LMAO
  Now if I could just find Rich Customer's Drivin Mid 80's AMC pacer's ??? I would be the Man LMAO
  Edel brock and an Illegal smogg certificate all you need to know about Mid 80's computerized Carb's LMAO ??
  See there I just condensed 11 book's on Mid 80's Computerized Carb's intoo 1 sentence ! Pure Blankin Genuise ??
  On 32 pict stock carb's Duall I have some ! Never see them in use But if there Kadron's ?? I can hook you up with a site that has everything you wanna know about K- Dog's in about 5 easy step's .
  In fact that is exactly what Im doin today ! Duall K- Dog's that were Tweaked, 34mm venturis for Head's Ported and Polished By Clyde Berge !
  Drove me nut's for 2 hour's trying to Sync ! Wont Sync !! Point's Plug's , Valve adjustment . Still wont Sync !
  Finally resorted to pullin them off and goin back thru them ! Low and behold nothin wrong untill I got to a Venturi << It's Loose LMAO .
  How the Blank Did that happen ??? Could have tightend that up on the car ??? Hmmm !
  Somebody been trying to adjust Carb's ??? Think's Ohh Sean isnt that Sharp I can do this ?? Hell I adjusted a Holley, on Jethro's Truck once how hard can it be ??
  Got a sneaky Hunch they cranked on the wrong screw ! Cause I know the Vent's were tight when I installed them ! Somethin I check and Double check Everytime I tuned the car ??
  LMAO Except this time ? Arghhhhhh ! Im gonna paint them this time so they know not to touch them !!! Next time they think there Fine Tune Mechanic's !! LMAO
  Yett lett me know what your runnin ! Before Stock Dual's Might just consider a 34 Pict  single !
  By time you Jett and Vent a sett of Stockers for your motor all that Blank your gonna have a Blank load of work and aggravation and $ in them !
  There's really no way around a set of K- Dog's or Webber's ?? No real performance Gaine's out of stock ! To get the performance gaine's is just to much time and money, on stock Dual's !!
  Carb's on V.W's gotta be right or it's a slow Engine Cook ! Just the very fact that your not runnin Choke's and or Heater flap's etc Create's some excessive Engine Wear !
  Not a Guessin Game ! Each Set has to be Dialed in per the Engine Build ! It's the Combo's that make it right !
  Gas in Gas out ! Head's, Vent's and Exhaust and Jetting all need to be figured !
  Guy who pull's a 850 Dollar set of Webbers out of a box deliverd by UPS think's he is gonna bolt them on and Go is just Blankin in the Wind ??
Lil bitt more to it than that !
                                        Sean